Monticello releases star-spangled ban

If you're one of the lucky 1,000 ticket holders who will see President Bush speak at Friday's July 4 naturalization ceremony at Monticello, you'll get to celebrate your patriotism, but you'll be slightly restricted in the ways you can show it. Out of the security concerns that come with the arrival of a sitting president, Monticello has banned the following items from its grounds for the Fourth: duffel bags, suitcases, and backpacks; umbrellas; lawn furniture; coolers; bottled and canned beverages; animals (except service animals); aerosols of any kind; fireworks and firecrackers; real or simulated weapons and ammunition; knives of any size; tobacco products; mace; radio or other noisemakers; flags, banners, and signs of any type.

This is a marked change from the way the annual celebration usually proceeds, with families bringing picnic lunches to the affair, the pervasive smell of bug spray, and the spectacle of lots of red, white, and blue waving in the air.

Local blogger and social commentator Waldo Jaquith goes to the naturalization ceremony almost every year, but says he's going to skip this one. "I really intensely dislike President Bush," says Jaquith, who once ran for City Council as a Democrat, "but I'm just not going because you can't take the things people take to this every year. It seems like they're doing everything short of stripping you naked. I just hope they have a lot of water for people, because it gets quite hot."

Jaquith reports that on his cvillenews.com blog, the argument on the comment pages hasn't been over coolers and flags, but over the propriety of protesting this particular president's presence. For his part, Jaquith says that despite his dislike of President Bush, he doesn't believe Monticello on July 4 is the time or place for voicing dissent.

"It should certainly be legal to hold a protest," he says, "but this is the most important day of these people's lives, and when you wave signs either for or against Bush, you're making him bigger than the day itself."

Of course, not everyone feels that way. Fellow blogger and former press secretary to Congressman Dennis Kucinich (D-OH) David Swanson says that those in attendance should take heed of a scary 20th century precedent and make their opinions known, loud and clear.

"There were a lot of good Germans who kept quiet at solemn occasions when it was completely appropriate to do so," says Swanson. "The gravity stares us in the face in retrospect, and much of the public understands this. It's entirely appropriate."

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41 comments

David Swanson became such a pest on cvillenews.com by calling everyone who disgreed with him a nazi or a brown shirt that he was asked to no longer post there. That is the first time I have ever seen Waldo do that. Now Swanson has sent out email and posted on other blogs all over the country to come and comment on Waldo bog since he was banned.

Swanson seems to also work for the Charlottesville Center for Peace and Justice (or at least it's looks like it from their website, I can't tell for sure). That's a funny way to promote peace.

I'm not a Bush fan, but I'd have to say that a protest at Monticello on the 4th would be inappropriate, out of respect to those who are getting their citizenship. They have out in years of work to get there, and to have their day upstaged by protesters - who really aren't going to change things one iota by yelling at a tone-deaf president ¢Ã¢â??¬” would be a shame.

If you want to register your dissent, perhaps you should gather along 53, near the park, and wave your signs and jeer as he drives by (assuming he's not helicoptering directly to the Monticello lawn).

FWIW, I think it's utterly, utterly appropriate to hold a boisterous protest at Monticello on July 4. But holding it during a citizenship ceremony, not so much, for the reasons that Dan Heuchert explains. It should be legal to do...I just think it makes you an insensitive jerk if you do it.

Yeah, I have to agree partly with both Dan and Waldo. I am a "Green Carder" and am seriously thinking about going for citizenship and would very much like to have "my" citizenship ceremony be exactly that. We should be making this event about the new citizens and not about Bush, it is their day and I would like all potential protestors to please make it about the "new citizens" day. By all means protest (I am not a Bush fan either) but please make your voice heard outside the grounds of Monticello, maybe as Waldo suggests along route 56 or thereabouts.

Sorry, meant to say along route 53 as Dan suggests !

Regarding Waldo's Quest to Be Called a Nazi:

This thing has more lives than a cat or Dick Cheney.

The intensity of Waldo's quest to claim I've called him a Nazi is a little disturbing. Had I called him a Nazi I would apologize and he would refuse, because he enjoys so much the vicious hatred he's wallowing in with his false claim that I called him a Nazi.

The last time I denied it, he replied: "David, you just can't put that genie back in the bottle. 'Brownshirts' being, of course, the members of the Sturmabteilung,the Nazi paramilitary group."

He said this because I had referred to some people as brownshirts. Perhaps an exaggeration, but more importantly those people were not Waldo unless he blogs under multiple names to support his own opinions and then forgets which name he blogged under. Yes, I called some people that. But they weren't Waldo. I'm sorry, because Waldo would clearly much prefer they had been.

What I called Waldo was a good German, which is a very different thing from a Nazi. And again it's an exaggeration, but not much of one. It's also not meant to pick on Waldo. Millions of Americans share his good-German tendencies. The weird thing is, though, that Waldo never claims not to be a good German. Instead, he claims that a good German is "sort of Nazi by default."

Why does he so badly want to be called a Nazi?

Waldo goes on to remark: "Then there's your statement that 'fascism has penetrated [my] brain.'"

I suggested that a certain behavior looks like the internalization of some fascist tendencies. But, again, the person engaging in that behavior - at least in name - simply wasn't Waldo.

Waldo then remarked: "And that the notion that one should be respectful to new citizens 'would make Mussolini proud.'"

This, too, had nothing to do with Waldo, and what I said would make Mussolini proud was not

"Be respectful to new citizens."

but rather:

"Have your protest, but have it over there, within the established protest zone, where no one will have to look at you, where you won't bother anybody. Don't be disruptive or rude. Do not fail to get a permit. Try to keep the noise down."

See if you can spot any differences between what Waldo said I was commenting on and what I was actually commenting on.

Waldo then added:

"For good measure, you also declared President Bush to be a 'Nazi'."

Again, the problem here is that Waldo simply isn't President Bush. They are, as far as I know, two completely different people.

Having proved his case so compellingly, and having gone on in another post to claim - tongue-in-cheek - to be a Nazi, Waldo concluded triumphantly:

"There's no getting around it: you called me and just about everybody else here Nazis."

But, of course, I didn't call Waldo that, and of the dozens of people "here" I called a couple of guys brownshirts and one President a Nazi. But I'm not sure the president was actually there with Waldo. And what I called him was a fascist, as a more accurate and general term. I only acquiesced and called him a Nazi because Waldo was so pushy about getting someone called a Nazi, and Bush seemed the best candidate.

Waldo, I'm sorry I called you a good German, but I do wish you'd consider why I did. I'm just asking you to be a little more concerned, active, and disobedient to rising dictatorial tendencies in this country. Sorry to be pushy about it.

To clear up the confusion from an earlier post, David Swanson does not work for, nor is he speaking for, the Charlottesville Center for Peace and Justice. He is a former board member, active participant and friend of the organization, but he is also an individual with his own thoughts and ideas. Regarding this topic and on cvillenews.com, he speaks only for himself. Our website permits anyone who registers to submit articles pertaining to peace and justice. It is, admittedly, confusing as to what individuals are professing versus what CCPJ endorses. That will hopefully be remedied soon. However, the board of CCPJ specifically voted against sponsoring any protest during the ceremony.

There is a time and place for everything. This is NOT the time or place for a protest regardless of your opinion regarding President Bush's visit to Monticello.

Thanks Tamar

Shame Cheney Couldn't Come Too.

Cheney to Join Bush in Celebrating Constitution on July 4

While George Dubya will desecrate Monticello with some dishonest remarks from a podium on Friday as new citizens swear to defend the Constitution he has destroyed, this AP story has the plans of the man in charge. Dick Cheney will make his remarks on a ship named the Constitution and talk about fighting pirates rather than being one:

***

Dick Cheney to visit Boston on July Fourth
By Associated Press

WASHINGTON - Vice President Dick Cheney will be in Boston on July Fourth to attend a ceremony aboard the USS Constitution.

Cheney spokeswoman Megan Mitchell said today that Cheney will attend Friday's military reenlistment ceremony on the historic warship, known as "Old Ironsides."

The Constitution was commissioned in 1797 and is docked at Boston's historic Charlestown Naval Yard, a national park. The ship never lost a battle, from fighting pirates in the Caribbean to British in the War of 1812.

***

While only a small minority anywhere in the United States actually supports Bush or Cheney, it will be interesting to see which setting serves as better protection for them from protesters cowed by fears of negative PR. Bush will surround himself with new citizens being naturalized, and Cheney with members of the military. While most Americans oppose the policies of their military, many are extremely resistant to saying so in the presence of members of the military. Charlottesville and Boston, birthplaces of the Revolution and of the author of the Declaration of Independence, let the contest begin. Where does the spirit of rebellion still breathe?

Although I agree we should respect the immigrants who will become U.S. citizens at Monticello on July 4, surely, at least a few of them will have come from countries where political dissent is a punishable crime. For that reason alone, I think protesting Mr. Bush's presence is actually appropriate rather than inappropriate. What a wonderful country we have where citizens can confront a despotic leader freely and out in the open.

Seriously Swanson -you just got to be kidding. Waldo has done more to help his area and the cause of good government then you have ever done. While you scream that we just don't understand that screaming at a lame duck President might change the world and ruining a ceremony is a noble deed.

Waldo started the sunlight project to make it easier for Virginians to track how bills go though session, he started cvillenews.com and has work for many democrats getting them elected and donating to democratic causes. He has made a difference that involved slaving over a computer to make commenting on local topics easier for regular guys like me. He fought in the courts against unjust laws and puts his time and money where his mouth is. He has made Charlottesville a better place to live. He is the type of patriot that wishes I would stop talking about him right now.

But a bully such as yourself must not stand. You slandering him in this town shows such a stunning lack of understanding to what a model citizens looks like- that words almost fail. You have injected your poisonous self righteousness to good people and been denounced right here by the CPJC center, who won't protest Bush. Where is your venom for them? Are fine people like Tamar "good germans" as well? Unless you go after them with the same passion you went after Waldo you can add hypocrite to the growing list of criticisms that many here now associate with your name.

I barely know Waldo. I have no passion against him. I have little reason to believe he is not every bit the ideal model human being. I hope he recovers from his hatred for me someday and that we can be friends and that I can learn something from him. None of that changes the simple fact that I never called him a Nazi, or the fact that all that Nazi nonsense is an absurd distraction from a very serious topic that Waldo has completely avoided. And, yes, I'm partly to blame for the Nazi nonsense, but not for most of it. I just posted a ridiculously detailed explanation of the simple fact that I've never called the guy a Nazi. He did not respond at all. You responded without a single word related to what I had posted. That being the case, let's drop the pretense once and for all that I called him a Nazi. Let's further stipulate that, nonetheless, without having called him a Nazi, I apologize for it anyway. I'm sorry.

The fact will remain that I decidedly disagree with him regarding the appropriateness of certain protests, and it disturbs me that even the sorts of protests he claims to support he doesn't do anything publicly to support -- such as urging Monticello to uninvite Bush or joining us in the streets on Friday - you are invited too. You won't be anywhere near any newly naturalized citizens, but you'll be together with lots of other people striving to do what needs to be done at this moment in our history. Everybody can come, no matter how many wonderful other things they've done.

Best,
David

It's not just about the Nazi thing and you know that that. You weren't asked to leave cvillenews.com because of the nazi thing. You were told to go for the same thing that got you banned from Daily Kos and other places- you refused to be reasonable by any fair minded measure. You don't know when to quit or even say "well I think you wrong and we will just have to disagree". You can't even finish an apology without sounding like a jerk. BTW calling you a jerk doesn't mean I hate you (you flatter yourself thinking Waldo hates you as well)- I'm disappointed how much someone with your resume has lost by being a jerk for no measurable gain.

If Waldo doesn't want to protest Bush on this one occasion it doesn't tarnish is reputation one iota in my book. If waving a sign at Bush is all you do here it will mean nothing when the deeds are tallied.

Bush is coming here and your attempt to use a flamethrower to set the blogs on fire because we don't want to spend our hard earned time off making a futile gesture has only hurt you. Bush will come and then go away. Then in November we will elect a new president and in January Bush will be no more. I can only imagine what it will take to get your good name back.

I was considering coming to protest at the foot of Monticello but the thought that I will run into to you or help your rantings pleas was more than I can bear. Perhaps I will go door to door for Barrack or talk to my neighbors about how a change is need in this country. But the one thing I won't do is reward or encourage the infantile behavior you have displayed.

The is much to do in this country to make it a better place, I will do the little things like cleaning a stream, going door to door, or working a phone bank. Perhaps you can do the similar things and we can put all this behind us. I will remain hopeful that we can.

Consider it behind us :-)

GW is helicoptering it to PVCC on Friday and then motor pooling it to Monticello. Wednesday morning around 10:30 Virginia State Police were testing out the field for Friday with their choppers. There choppers were loud as HELL...I only hope GW's chopper is quieter.
Protesting on the day these people became citizens SUCKS. Give them a break.

Lord, save us. Protecting peoples' pwecious widdle feelings in the political realm is the single stupidest innovation of the 20th century.

A mass-murdering sociopath is coming to Charlottesville. An in-your-face expression of dissent by current citizens of the US would be the best way to show these new citizens what the US is about. It's my hope that Thomas Jefferson will rise from the dead and spank Lord W. Bunnypants till he can't sit for eternity.

This ceremony isn't sacred or holy. It's just a ceremony that this serial murderer has hijacked to use for his own purposes. Does anyone honestly think that George Bush gives two bits for US citizenship or these new citizens?

BTW, George Bush is a Nazi. He's just killing Arabs this time around.

Jamie,
It was the arabs who killed a few thousand Sept 2001. They've been doing to their own protestors, gays, etc for a long time as well.

Try living in an Arab country and protesting the government or maybe see if you can carry a bible in a Saudi airport. Then you'll see who the nazis are.

Jamie D and David Swanson are nothing but a couple of quacks that only make it harder for reasonable people to effect change in this country. I wish they would learn to be quiet and go away.

Protest is a good thing, my friends! The first rule of democracy is: use it or lose it. The second rule is: if you feel strongly about shouting your beliefs in the street, just get out and do it and ignore those who would have you hush up for the sake of orderliness. The third rule (okay, I'm on a roll here) is vote. No matter what you believe, you had better drag your butt to the polling station on election day. Peace.

You in C'Ville are at the center and origin of America's history...be worthy.

Mr. Jefferson called our nemesis "the real Anti-Christ." Any think what he described just faded away?

True Americans have the duty to track back that which he identified and see its conduct from then to the present: assassinations, false money, false war, false elite.

Bush committed 9-11. Emeritus Professor David Ray Griffin's scholarship proves Bush's treason.

Those taken aback at such enormity no doubt are in equal denial about America's Founder and Prophet using such an "extreme" term as Anti-Christ to describe the same "engine for enslaving mankind" that went on to fund Adolph Hitler, commit the Holocaust, and oversee the assassinations of Kennedy and King to send us to die in Vietnam.

Pray about it...if you ever conceived of having a relationship with Annuit Coeptis G-d...or Truth.

Protest Bush. He's using The Constitution as toilet paper. America is the anomaly in history.

Be neither slave nor slavemaster. Bush must be tried and fried.

Death for Treason

The nutcases are all coming out now...

"It was the arabs who killed a few thousand Sept 2001."

If you wish to engage in that kind of blanket rhetoric, it leaves the door open to talk about the crimes of "the Jews" and "the Christians" in relation to Palestine, Russia and all of history. Whatever happened on 9/11, Bush and his peers were in it up to their eyeballs. 20/20 hindsight shows that the powers that be were complicit in engineering or at least covering up complicity in the Lusitania, Pearl Harbor and the Gulf of Tonkin. I don't think that the tactics of the powers that be have changed all that much in just a few generations.

Like it or not, Bush and Co. are little more than sociopaths that deserve no respect from their primary victims, the American people.

"reasonable people"

Would those be the ones that keep voting the likes of Bush, the Clintons and other losers into office?

"Try living in an Arab country and protesting the government "

Try carrying an American flag into Monticello on July 4th, 2008.

I am NOT a Bush supporter in any way shape or form. I consider him to be the worst president in modern history. But I know Monticello as a wonderful place of education and historical preservation. Please do not blame Monticello for having Bush as their speaker. The list of prohibited items, for example, was generated by the secret service, not Monticello. Remember Monticello holds this ceremony every year. The soon to be citizens are their primary concern. And many of the citizens feel very special that the President of the U.S. is to be their featured speaker, regardless of how ineffective of a President he is. While I find protesting to be inappropriate at this event, I agree with the right to do it. But like the previous poster said, it should be done away from the citizens. Also I am not sure how much affect it will have anyway. Bush has proven to be oblivious to the American people.

I'm so disappointed in the weird reaction from some of the Cville posters. It surely must be indicative of the fact that many in Charlottesville leaded cushioned lives in a bubble, away from the sort of turmoil that affects so much of the rest of the world. Perhaps they've never known many people from other countries-- the sorts of people who have put their lives on the line to protest injustice. Nope, the people in Charlottesville sit on their schoolmarm-ish little white hands and proclaim smugly that niceness and civility are the one true weapon that will bring tyrants down. This is without a doubt the whiniest and most self-congratulatory town I've ever lived in.

C'villians don't like people like David Swanson and Jamie D because they make them uncomfortable. "Ewwww, their harsh words hurt my ears. They are vehement, so they must be crackpots of some sort. And I don't think protesting works anyway, and there's a barbecue I have to go to, and there'll be several imported ales I've been meaning to try. I don't want to protest, but I also don't want you to protest either."

It wasn't JUST Martin Luther King that won the civil rights battle. It was also Rosa Parks, the Black Panthers, the rock throwers, and the people who had dogs set on them. In every struggle there must be degrees of dissent. There's just as much room at the table for people like David Swanson as there is for Mr Roboto and Waldo. You may not like Swanson's methods, but you should consider sucking it up because he's fighting against our common enemy. He's sticking his neck out for the many who complain about Bush but who have never bothered to attend a protest.

"If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one, or it may be a physical one, and it may be both moral and physical, but it must be a struggle. Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will."

Frederick Douglass (c. 1817¢Ã¢â??‰â?¬Å?95)

I'm pretty sure that David Swanson's claim that "fascism has penetrated your brain" was directed towards me. What had I done to deserve such a public attack? I suggested that those attending the ceremonies at Monticello consider sitting on their hands and refusing to applaud for President Bush. That's it. I thought (and still think) it would be a dignified, yet powerful statement. I suggested that intentional silence has great power. And for that, I'm accused of being infected with fascism?

I wouldn't attack Mr. Swanson like that. Why would he do it to me?

Hey Harry,
I appreciate your stepping up and pointing out that that was you and not Waldo, since he's been on something of a crusade pretending it was him and taking offense at it - to the point where I was beginning to wonder whether your name was an alias he sometimes blogged under. I don't have any good excuse. I'm sorry for making a comment that you understandably took as such an attack. I've explained before, for what it's worth, that I was very hurriedly trying to note something I've argued at length so many times that it bores me, but something you could not possibly have been expected to understand by osmosis without my actually saying it, and that it that there seems to me to have arisen in the past few years a major trend toward silence and "dignity" (as if protesting for justice is not dignified if noisy). We have silent vigils and marches, and silent protests. And the strange thing is that it's only people on the left who do this. The right never goes in for silence. More often they err on the side of shrieking. And I think the basis for much of this trend is a low level of vaguely conscious fear of bad PR, fear of being called impolite, inappropriate, uncouth, counter-productive, politically incorrect, tactless, unpatriotic, disrespectful. I think this trend follows the same line as those who oppose disagreeing publicly with the president because he is the president, but I oppose all such self-censorship, and Jefferson would have denounced it unequivocally. When a flag or a uniform or a solemn pompous ceremony can immediately generate in the minds of millions the idea that silence is the ideal way to articulate our opposition, to communicate our world view, to declare our opposition, I start to smell fascism. I intend this not as a comment specifically about you. As you know, I've never met you. I see this as a widespread and disturbing trend.

Time for bed, guys

George W. Bush is probably asleep now, preparing for tomorrow. You need your rest to protest effectively.

Oh for the days when one could throw rotten tomatos at anyone. Oh that's right, and then get hanged. Well, so much for that. It's a shame that a man like Bush can come to Monticello and use it as his base of operation to make himself appear like a good patriotic American. Given the appalling lack of a real immigration policy in this country the decline in immigration rates that have occurred during his rule, he picked an interesting topic to focus upon (or obscure the truth of) for this celebration of our country's birthday.

Good luck protestors!

Re the drama over Swanson's use of the term "good little Germans" over at cvillenews.com: A few days ago, I told my 83-year-old Mom about the debate going on over there (then nascent) regarding how/if Bush's visit should be protested. Interestingly, she used that exact same term to describe those posters who were advocating squashing action if it wasn't the sort of protest they personally approved of.

In doing so, she wasn't accusing anyone of being a Nazi, she was stating that, like many in Germany during WWII, people will sometimes choose the options that make them feel personally comfortable rather than those that are actually likely to be more effective during what are undeniably desperate times.

Mom is a very nice, thoughtful woman, she certainly doesn't have a blog, etc etc. But she did live through WWII, the Civil Rights struggle, the Watergate era, and now the era of torture, domestic spying, and the trampling of the Constitution. She has stated unequivocally that our political climate (i,e, the way citizens are being treated by the gov't, number of lies, etc) is worse now than at any other point in her long life.

Naturally, one would assume that the worse the crimes against the people are, the more loud and lengthy (thus "impolite") the protests should be. Not true in the US, and most particularly in Charlottesville this week.

So here I am, watching the naturalization ceremony and the protesters are doing their thing. I gotta say, everybody who pleaded with people not to protest during the actual show were spot-on. They sound like idiots, you can't even make out what they're saying, and in this context people who would likely otherwise agree with them applaud their removal.

Now somebody just yelled "FASCIST!" during a lull in the speech.

I guess some people protest because they truly feel they can affect change, and some people protest because they're just pissed off - and those people don't seem as likely to affect change because, well, nobody wants to associate with them when push comes to shove.

You can't affect change by screaming at somebody during a public ceremony. This isn't a campaign event. You can affect change by being respectful - others are more likely to come on board if they don't think they're joining with a flaming moron.

I have had little contact with the CCPJ. What contact I have had, though, has not reflected well on them. years ago they used to volunteer to pour beer at Fridays after 5. They were BY FAR the most irresponsible of all the community groups participating. They never brought the number of people they had committed to, they had people come sign in as volunteers (so CCPJ could get paid for them) and then leave, and they had such an amazing sense of entitlement claiming that they should be paid for the work of volunteers from other groups who had been sent over to help them because they didn't bring enough people to do the job. Perhaps they do fine work within their core mission (which seems to be to berate anybody who doesn't agree with them), but I found them to be extremely unreliable, irresponsible, selfish, and disrespectful. And my God, when they had issues with anything - absolutely anything - they were the world's worst whiners. Maybe they've changed, but I somehow doubt it.

So the next time they protest, these people need to find the TV stations' microphones so we can hear what they have to say. Please speak clearly.

Go, Mom!!

Some apple pie would be good too :-)

"And my God, when they had issues with anything - absolutely anything - they were the world's worst whiners. "

They sound like the upper reaches of the Republican and Democratic parties.

I'd like to know how a banner or 'sign of any kind' is a security issue unless Bush feels very, very insecure.

Jim, good question, but I guess the President said we allow free speech and didn't mention signs. For signs perhaps you have to pay a fee :-)

In defense of Monticello, they did actually follow through on their willingness to allow in shirts with words on them, including "IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY." And they didn't bother to search anybody for signs. Also, I had told every newspaper and TV station that would listen that I planned to go protest, and I walked right in.

I'd like to pass along a comment to the two nice Republican women who were sitting to my left and right, and with whom I pleasantly chatted for hours in the sun until the son-of-a-bush showed up. I know that I did not object strongly enough to your xenophobic views to tip you off that I was going to shout for Bush's impeachment, and I realize that I probably surprised you. I'm sorry. I thought you were both very very nice. The one of you who particularly fears and dislikes Muslims, I disagree with strongly. And, no, Obama was not sworn in on a Koran :-) and yes he really does have white grandparents. The reason I seemed like a perfectly normal English-speaking white person who then became a leftist nut is that I've read the Constitution and agree with the majority of Americans about George W. Bush. The Constitution requires that we impeach a president like this one. This might help explain it better:
http://afterdowningstreet.org/busharticles

It's a security thing. Signs block the view of the USSS and the PPD.

The President, or any other position that requires security (the Prez, Speaker of the House or anyone else)are under USSS or PPD protection and the security level or procedures to be used under all circumstances are set by the USSS and PPD.

Music Lover-- I've read many of your posts on different topics and respect both you and your opinions. However, you simply can't discount a person's views because you take issue with how they present those views ("flaming morons").

It's this cult of "niceness" over common sense among those on the left that got us 8 years of Bush. Why weren't we all rioting in the streets when he stole the election for the second time? It's all of our faults. Nobody wanted to rock the boat, to stick their neck out. So, why hasn't he been impeached yet?

If, over the last 8 years, more people had done what a very few did today, then that might have jump-started the groundswell necessary to get Bush/Cheney impeached. And if you think that theatrics, loudly protesting, and even rioting against injustice don't work, then you are either incredibly naive, or too young to remember the Sixties and the civil rights movement. They were all called troublemakers, impolite, and morons then too! ;-)