UVA football leads division

Only weeks after some fans were calling for his head following a loss to Duke, Al Groh's Virginia Cavalier football squad leads the Coastal Division of the Atlantic Coast Conference by half a game, following Saturday's win on the road against Georgia Tech. Should the current standings hold for the rest of the season, they'll play in the ACC Championship Game on December 6 in Tampa Bay against the Florida State Seminoles, the top team in the Atlantic Division. The winner of that game earns a spot playing in Miami on New Years Day in primetime in the FedEx Orange Bowl.


What a way to show the critics, great job Al

UVA will choke down the strech. Trust me on this one. it's what they do best.

It won't even take until down the stretch. I've been a UVA fan for years and since they've had Al Groh, their biggest play in the playbook is "the Choke". Groh sucks, and UVA will never be a real team until they get rid of their coach, their OC and their AD.

Yes, my concerns have been addressed, it is true, but the solutions- especially of the leveling of courses- seem to be the appropriate resolution.

Correction to my above posting- the leveling of the courses DO NOT seem to be an appropriate resolution.

I read Pam Moran's Plan which is to be presented tonight to the school board and I think the language indicated that she is just postponing the proposal to unweight GPA's except for AP for one more year.

I read Pam Moran's Plan which is to be presented tonight to the school board and I think the language indicated that she is just postponing the proposal to unweight GPA's except for AP for one more year.

The inference about AP weigting posted by "Gail" is incorrect. There is no postponement proposed or considered regarding weighting in my recommendations. My proposal is to continue weighting AP, Honors, and Dual Enrollment coursework-period.

Pam Moran

I did indeed misread the proposal. The postponement until the 2008-09 school year is in the implementation of weighting the Standard and Advanced levels equally.
It is to the credit of the Superintendant that she pays such close attention to parents.

On what planet do pizza drivers make more than teachers? Teachers start in the upper 30s in Charlottesville and Albemarle. Show me a pizza place that pays that well.

Sorry, but I don't get as freaked out by the "low" teacher salaries as everyone else does. I don't want people deciding they want to educate "apathetic smart a**es" because it pays well, because their bad attitudes will likely come through in their teaching methods. Perhaps the pay should be higher, but low pay doesn't mean that we're not "attracting talent" - it means that we're attracting dedicated people who care about more than high salaries.

It is my opinion that the disparity in scores on the international stage has much more to do with Americans attitude towards education, home environments and the instructional methods used in the schools than it does with teachers salary or student/teacher ratios. I suggest that you search and take a look at the descriptions and reviews of the book "Learning Gap: Why Our Schools Are Failing And What We Can Learn From Japanese And Chinese Education"

Also, don't forget that teachers get paid for nine months of the year and that pizza drivers pay for their vehicles, fuel and insurance. The stop and go driving of pizza delivery is very hard on vehicles.

Kevin Cox


American students performance, particularly in math and science could be improved without raising teachers salaries one thin dime. Talk to me about raising teachers salaries when American students performance in math and science improves and not when it's poor. That said, I also believe that there are many hard working and dedicated teachers in this country who's job performance cannot be improved by increasing their salaries. They are already teaching the way they were taught to and the way they are expected to teach.

Looking at higher pay as the solution to the problems in American schools diverts attention from genuine solutions.

Kevin Cox

Yup. I dispute what you say. I really have a hard time believing that Tow truck drivers and pizza drivers who work all year make as much as teachers make in nine months. I also don't much care for the comparison as a way to justify higher teachers salaries.

If you want to have a pissing match well then here goes: You wrote, "On the international stage american kids score poorly. Teachers are very underpaid and that makes attracting talent next to impossible. " But then you said, "I never said or alluded that salaries were the sole determining factor regarding student performance." I see a conflict here. What other factors did you mention in that post that I may have overlooked?

You have not persuaded me that teachers need to be paid more. It may be that they do but I am not going to be persuaded by your arguement.

The comparison argument just doesn't convince me. Maybe truck drivers and pizza delivery guys do make more. But you only have to look at celebrities and NFL athletes to realize that pay often doesn't match the value of the job that one does. That's just a simple truth of life. If it were up to me, teachers would make 10 times what they make now. They do deserve it. But while better salaries might attract more to the job, I also think they would attract plenty of people who are not interested in kids and are only interested in the money. I do not want those people in the public school system. I don't care if they get fired within a year, that's all it takes for one bad teacher to ruin a child's attitude towards school.

If you really want to get concerned about a salary-related issue, take a look at what preschool teachers are making - and the training, or lack of, that some of these people have.

Cletus, what is your suggestion for a better teacher salary scale? And how will we pay for it?

I totally feel for teachers who can't afford those $350,000 houses. But if you want to use that argument, then I hope you have ideas to fund a pay increase for the policemen, firefighters, librarians, etc, as well.

The local/national problem right now is the Achievement Gap in testing mandated by NCLB. The local public schools have many strengths and an incredible number of competent and dedicated teachers(my high school child has a full slate of very good teachers). The AC public schools have a long history of suberb opportunties for motivated bright students and the challenge is to keep a strong program for these kids while improving the performance of children from poor or non-English language homes. We can not do this just by reorganizing our schools! We must find more resources for smaller classes in the schools with a high free lunch population,make preschool available for all at risk students, provide after school homework support, provide summer programs for low performing students, provide extra learning opportunities for at risk kids,and make improvements in nutrition and healthcare for poor children. Schools can't do it all but in order to do much more, they must have more funding. The attempt to shift resources from the high performing students to serve the needs of at risk students will eventually give Albemarle a public school system attended mostly by poor students whose needs are inadequately met. Middle class families, with educated parents, will not be willing to sacrifice the education their children need, while bearing the brunt of the local property tax burden. We must face the reality that fixing the Gap means identifying more school and community resouces and will take more money.

Yo, Cletus- check out Cuba. It seems they are working with your solutions.

If anything, NFL players are *underpaid* due to the salary cap in the league.

There are what, maybe 15-50 people in the -world- who are capable of quarterbacking an NFL team to success. When you factor in how much the NFL makes in revenues, their salaries are small in comparison to the amount of money they bring in via ticket sales, jersey sales, etc.

It's a constant comparison that is made .. "professional athletes are overpaid!", but it's not really true. There are usually a subset of 1000 players that make the cut in any professional sport, and lots of people pay money to watch them do their job. In contrast, there are many more qualified teachers, and very few people pay to watch them teach (professional lecturers/college professors aside).

I agree with cletus that the problem is that american culture does not respect or value education, therefore we do not put money into it. Money talks, Bullsh** walks.

As far as teachers being rewarded by the merit of their job, it's not a religious vocation that they should also need to live a life of poverty... At one point when I was searching for a teaching job I was called by the owner of a Franchised school, i.e. he was going to make a profit, and he was offering a salary that any high school graduate could earn for a day that started earlier than the parent's at offices and ended after their work day was done so they could drop off and pick up their kids around their schedule. When I told him I was no longer interested now that I knew the compensation, he actually had the gall to argue with me - "Don't you care about the kids?" was his most memorable line. "Do you care about my kids?" I asked him. "I have two, I'm supporting them myself, and I have to put their well being above how much I care about any students. I have an obligation to make enough to give them a decent life" Subsequent to that, I went to work in an urban area that was recently featured on ABC as the poorest city in America and the storylne was that these children just needed someone IN THEIR SCHOOLS to care about them. Let me tell you that with their parents' welfare, subsidies for this, that and the other thing, low income housing, and the fact that the parents did not have to pay off student loans -- their parents had a far greater disposable income to buy things for them than I did for my same-aged children, and a far greater amount of time which they could choose to spend with their children than the idiot working stiff who puts their kid in morning day care before school, and after care after school to cover the commute time and the extra hours teachers are required to work. Summers? If you aren't taking classes required to keep your certification, you're taking them to try to get a tiny notch up the salary scale. While these "poor" kids were having all kinds of enrichment programs provided free for them, I was having to go beg my local little league (neighbors) to waive the fee to sign-up because after rent in a decent neighborhood, and unsubsdized utilities and daycare, I didn't even have money for food. I lied and told my kids I didn't like cooking, but the truth was we ate at my parents almost every night when I taught because I couldn't afford to feed them and my family knew it. They wore handmedowns and thrift store clothes while the "poor" children had new stuff. After the church started bring us Thanksgiving food baskets and my kids asked "Are we poor?" I knew it was time to leave teaching.

Here you go guys... $35K???? This currently advertised local job is offering college grads SEVEN BUCKS to work with children in the "formative years" when experts say their brains are prepared for all future learning... and you get to change diapers too, but that's just a bonus, did I mention the hours start BEFORE everyone else has to be at work and end AFTER everyone else's workday. There probably aren't enough characters in this text box to mention all the jobs where high school dropouts with criminal records can make more than $7 an hour.

Do you enjoy working with children?

Bright Beginnings Preschool seeks experienced and qualified teachers to teach a creative and academic curriculum in a professional setting. College degree (some limitations) or Child Development Associate (or equivilant) required including experience in a licensed facility. Three locations: Forest Lakes (Rt. 29N), Mill Creek (Avon St. Extnd.), and Crozet (Rt.250 West). We offer competivite pay, insurance benefits, paid holidays, and a retirement plan for qualified candidates. Various age group openings. Regular training hours are provided as well as opportunities for growth and advancement. Fax resume to (434) 973-4659 or call P.J. at (434) 973-8414. EOE

Company Name: Bright Beginnings Preschool
Company Website: http://www.brightbeginningsva.com
Location: Charlottesville
Available: Immediately. Full Time. Part Time.
Pay: $7.00-$10.00 per hour
Posted: 1/23/07