Taser stops man (and bottle) from entering stadium

A Crozet man reveals what deed initially brought him to justice with a police-fired Taser after he tried to flee custody during the UVA football game against Virginia Tech: he was trying to tote a bottle of liquor into Scott Stadium. The Charlottesville Newsplex, which captured the Tasing on video, has the story.

Michael D. Hogberg of Crozet was interviewed on the Newsplex detailing his injuries, which included over a dozen stitches and a chipped tooth, and expressing hope that his escape-from-custody felony might be reduced to a misdemeanor.

Albemarle County Police Lt. Todd Hopwood says that police were summoned by RMC Security, the Richmond-based firm that provides security at large UVA events, after Hogberg, who was also charged with being drunk in public, was ejected from the Stadium.

"If someone voluntarily leaves," says Hopwood, "they don't call the police, so evidently they were having a problem with Mr. Hogberg."

Hopwood confirms that the officer who Tased Hogberg was Eric Kudro. Hopwood says he'll withhold an opinion on the matter until an internal review–- standard any time police use force–- wraps in about two weeks.

Hopwood did say that police policy forbids a use of Taser except when defending against harm. Such harm can, Hopwood notes, include self-harm, and the hand-cuffed Hogberg was running through a crowded area, over two roads.

As the video, however, indicates, the harm became imminent only after Hogberg, who the Hook was unable to immediately reach, was hit by two electrodes, momentarily paralyzing him and bringing his face into quick contact with an asphalt road.

–updated at 2:15pm December 1 with six additional paragraphs

Read more on: eric kudrotaser

242 comments

quote: "...but I and everyone else have glazed eyes now."

How would you know that? Did you travel to homes everywhere and check their eyes at 2:00 a.m.? And then you popped back in here at 2:00 a.m. to report in and speak for everybody? :)

Sure you can.

It's not a threat.

Your claim does reminds me of a tale. (You brought this upon yourself.) After a false arrest in 2007, the arresting rookie attempted to apolgize to the falsely accused. The falsely accused told the tookie, "It's not over yet!"

Based upon the wording of "It's not over yet!", the rookie's Capt and Lt then went to the Magistrate's office and had a stalking warrant issued for the falsely accused who made the remark to the rookie. They too claimed to the Magistrate that it was threat. (morons)

All of this took place at the Magistrate's Office as the fasely accused was walking in with his then 5-year-old daughter to visit the magistrate on duty, a close and personal friend of his for 30 years.

At the time the fasely accused made the remark "It's not over yet!", two other cops were present. Their testimony was never needed at the stalking trial. But if it had been necessary to have them testify, both of them would have said any village idiot with an IQ over 56 knew the remark was in reference to lawsuits being filed over the first false arrest. After the stalking charge was thrown out of court, it became the next false arrest they were sued for. All of them just kept digging their hole deeper.

Even the judge said the remark "It's not over it!" was clearly indicative of a lawsuit coming down the pike. During the trial the judge often had to shield his laughter from view with his hands as some of these sissies testified. When he couldn't help but laugh at times, he attempted to disguise jis laughter as a cough.

Keep in mind now, at the time this took place, both the rookie and the falsely accused were both sowrn law enforcement officers. If a rookie will do this to a fellow officer, just imagine what they are capable of doing to an ordinanry citizen.

Aftert the trial the judge walked into his chambers and told his baliff that he simply couldn't believe the entire chain of command had just perjured themselves in his courtroom. It was long after this trial that the judge announced his retirement. IMHO, I think the judge was fed up and had gotten to the point he couldn't convict people anymore based on testimony from cops.

Sorry, me no proofread. My bad!!!

The above was suppose to read...

It WASN'T long after this trial that the judge announced his retirement. IMHO, I think the judge was fed up and had gotten to the point he couldn’t convict people anymore based on testimony from cops.

Here's a lawsuit I think they will eventually lose whenever Taser gets their day in court. Read it very carefully:

http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site297/2009/1119/20091119_0...

So, in the "good ole days," favoritism bad, but nepotism ok? Interesting...

OMG people stuns guns and tazers ARE NOT Lethal force... Jesus christ I am certified to use both... They are NOT lethal force.. The use of force continium is in this order... Verbal commands, physical force, Chemical agents (pepper spray), non lethal physical force (baton, or tazer, stun gun etc) and finally deadly force. However the officer can skip any step as needed as justified. I was trained and certified in stun guns and tazers. They are not deadly force. They are trained to only aim for certain areas and they will not kill you. Even if you have a freaking pace maker in it will not effect it. Stop crying people yes the officer was justified and yes it is illegal to bring alcohol into the stadium. It is a city ordinance and is inforced by police every year for every event. When you have several thousand people packed into a fairly small space you cannot allow them to get drunk and beligerant. If you want to get smashed and raise hell stay home people.

I for one wish some psychics would tell us if the running man would have escaped or been caught if he hadn't been tased. Where are the dxmn psychics when you could actually use one?

Is the verb form tased by the way? Tazed? Maybe tazered?

I think a linguist/psychic would be a real handy person to know.

Gabag,

You seemed to comment on every aspect of my post except the real question that I believe needs to be answered.

"Anywho, the real question that I want to ask is this. Is it neccessary for you to attack the officers on more of a personal rather than on a professional level? If you disagree with the decisions made, thats one thing. It doesnt mean that they are bad cops or bad people or just out to there to ââ?¬Å?abuse their power.” Being in law enforcement for so long, you must know that the easiest thing for people to do is play Monday Morning Quarterback on the decisions that you made. Hindsight is always 20/20.

You can put ten cops in a room to work out a problem, and you will most likely get ten ways to solve that problem. They will most likely all vary, but that doesnt make one better or more right than the other.

Comment deleted by moderator.

"I think this may be one of the lower quality postings you have made."

Now THAT is really saying something!

I'm Back, why do I have to keep explaining this to you? The video I just posted shows a cop that WAS TOO QUICK to draw and deploy his taser.

IMHO, this is exactly what happened in this stadium case. They were WAY TOO QUICK to draw and deploy a taser. If a small army of cops could not catch a drunk in handcuffs in a foot pursuit, perhaps he deserved to get away? Even I, 50+ years old with asthma, could probably have caught a drunk in handcuffs. It's not like the foot pursuit had gone on for 1/2 a mile. Plus, they knew who he was if he did successfully outrun all of them. And combined with the fact he would probably have voluntarily turned himself in after talking with friends and family. I said he would turn himself in within 24 hours above, I suspect it might have been within 8 to 12 hours.

Prior to this stadium event, he was well known to the county cops anyway.

I will repeat this one more time just for safe measure. It is MY HUMBLE OPINION that far too many cops nationwide draw and deploy their tasers WAY TOO QUICK! The tool is being misused and abused. I can't make my opinion much clearer than that.

Let's talk about this a little bit since you bring the subject up. When I worked for local government we had waste coming out the wazoo. The problem started when we acquired one supervisor for each deputy. we had 4 working deputies, 2 sergeants, 1 Lt and 1 Captain.

I'll bet I didn't work actually work 2 hours a day on most days. Maybe 3 hours on a bad day. And yet the sheriffs repeatedly kept insisting we needed more manpower year after year. We didn't need more manpower, we needed the manpower we already to jump in and do some actual work. No police department or sheriff's office needs one supervisor for every 1 officer. At any time you could find 2 or 3 employees sitting in the office chatting and drinking coffee. If the sheriff just so happened to be present, it was 3 or 4 employees sitting around chatting and drinking coffee.

Now keep in mind too, this was back when we actually did MORE work than they currently do. Due to the current technology they do much less work than we did 15 years ago. But I'll bet you $10,000 they are still asking for more manpower in the next budget.

Back when I first started, we had a captain and 2 deputies. And the captain (Norman Kelso) jumped in EVERY day and did just as much as any deputy that had ever been employed there. Norman wasn't happy unless he was doing something or helping out. Now this is the strange part .... even though Norman Kelso was the sheriff's brother-in-law, there was NO nepotism or favoritism. The then Sheriff Raymond Pace expected Norman to jump in and work. And by God, he did!

As far as I am concerned, the downhill spiral started during Carlton Baird's term. The nepotism. The favoritism. Hiring family members. Having to create more positions of rank so he could hand one to his son, IMHO. It never improved after that. To this day they still have as many supervisors as they do deputies.

Actually, I was joking. It went along with your story.

OK. :)

Look what somebody just sent me.....

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

-----Original Message-----
From: deleted
Date: Sat, 5 Dec 2009 19:43:18
To: deleted
Subject: Police car

We are traveling on 64 looking for snow. It started snowing right after we got
on the other side of Richmond. Just as we were passing Charlottesville we saw
our first car in the median (ditch). It was a police car.
Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel

Yup. CC popped by my place at around 1:45, and sure enough, my eyes were glazed

1. If everybody insisted (like you) on responding each time someone posts a contrary opinion, no thread would ever end. Sounds to me more like you HAVE to have the last word. Curious.

If you review all the threads, they never end because people keep them going. You, me, everybody... we keep them going. Just like I now have to repsond to your comments. Not one word in your most recent reply is related to the improper use or justified use of a taser, or any other wrongful action by rookie cops.

2. I’ve never seen anybody on here claim that you were fired more than once from law enforcement. Somebody once confused you with the other Steve Shifflett who faked a shooting and blamed it on a made-up African American suspect, but you clarified that quickly if I recall. Otherwise, it’s always just been the falling asleep on the job thing.

Well, you just haven't looked around enough. And you're just as guilty as anybody else when you claim above that I have sued half the cops in town, and have plans to sue the other half soon. That my friend is lible. It's not even close to being true or accurate. Why is it lible? Because I have never made such a statement, I have not sued half the cops in town, and I have no plans to sue the other half anytime soon.

Oh yeah, before you get your panties in a wad, I’m not a cop, never have been a cop, am not related to any cops, and don’t particularly want to be a cop.

My panties don't get in a wad. Seems quite the opposite is true. A claim was made here the other day that I only post to annoy and aggrvate the cops that read and post here. I have no idea who these cops may be. Don't care. But it's the reason I said I would love to catch a real cop posting lible about me here. They, of all people, know that I, of all people, WILL deal with it. And if they post lible about any other person, I hope said persons would deal with it too.

Just like I told CC, I imagine The Hook is fed up with people disrupting these threads day in and day out. I suspect they have decided to deal with it since we now see moderation. The only thing that puzzles me is how many people have possibly already been banned by IP address for the lible, insults, namecalling, and general disruption they have brought to these blogs.

It's like I have said many times, and it should be common sense to anybody with an IQ over 56 -- don't attack a person, attack the person's opinions if you disagree with them. If people had followed this simple rule, I don't think we would now see moderation being exercised. As far as I know, some things I have said might have been deleted, I just don't know. But if they have you don't see me sitting around and whining about it like a little crybaby. And you don't see me suggesting that other people should be moderated simply because I had my hand slapped. If I insult anybody, I hope The Hook moderates it. If I call anybody a name, I hope The Hook moderates it. If I introduce intentional disruption into any thread, I hope The Hook moderates it. And By God, if I post lible about any person, I sure hope The Hook moderates it to keep me out of trouble.

Why can't people behave themselves? Like all the innocent posters who have been accused of being me? If they agree with me, they are accused of being me on additional users names. After these false accusations, the people probably leave THE Hook blogs and never return. You think The Hook is going to continue to allow that to happen?

I guess I am asking some pretty stupids question though. If everybody was able to act civil and behave themselves in life we wouldn't need all these new rookie cops out on the street to act like "moderators", would we?

"It’s original intent was to subdue or debilitate a person the cops would normally have to shoot and kill."

First off, Im really not sure where you are getting your information from. A taser is NOT meant to take the place of a firearm or using deadly/lethal force. Thats like bringing a knife to a gun fight, doesnt make sense. The taser was designed as a tool to assist leo's in subduing suspects who resist or are otherwise non-compliant. You cant get much more non-compliant than someone escaping custody. I know I, nor any other reasonable person, could ever make you see a different angle much less change your mind. "IMHO," maybe you should gather facts, it makes your HO a little more credible. The bottom line is, had the cops tackled the guy and he fell down, the same thing would have happened to his face. Also, it doesnt matter what the cops would have done, it wouldnt have been up to your standard, simply because its on video and its something that you can talk about in a negative manner. Dont you find it sad that cville has nothing else to report about??? Is this really a "Top Story?" Please, you and everyone else, including The Hook must have never lived in a big city where actual news takes place

Now read the cop's version of why he arrested her. In the last paragraph below. Absolutely hilarious!!!!!!!!

---------------------

A police officer in the Syracuse, New York, area Tasered a 37-year-old mom repeatedly in front of her children during a routine traffic stop�and then arrested the mom, leaving the children alone in their family minivan for 40 minutes in freezing weather.

The incident took place in Onondaga County, New York, on January 31, but dashcam video of the incident only recently came to light.

According to a report at syracuse.com, what started out as a routine traffic stop escalated quickly when 37-year-old Audra Harmon challenged officer Sean Andrews assertion that she had been talking on her cell phone when he pulled her over. Harmon disputed that fact, as well as the officers claim that she had been speeding�doing 50 mph in a 45 zone.

An article at MSNBC.com describes the situation:

Harmon had been driving home with her 15-year-old son, whom she had just picked up from wrestling practice, and 5-year-old daughter. She said she was resting her right hand on her cheek as she pulled behind a sheriffs deputy to make a right turn onto the road where she lived. After she made the turn, the deputy pulled off the road to let her pass, then pulled out behind her with his lights flashing and siren blaring.
When Harmon got out of her minivan to show Officer Andrews that she wasnt in possession of a cell phone, and to ask to see video footage of her allegedly talking on the cell phone she didnt possess, the officer ordered her to get back in her car.

And then he pulled out his taser and said Im under arrest, Harmon said. I got back in the car and he said he wanted me back out of the car now. And I said Why am I under arrest? He then yanked me out of the car pulled his taser out and the first shot jolted me

According to Syracuse.com, Harmon was charged with disorderly conduct, resisting arrest and going 50 in a 45 mph zone. The district attorneys office dismissed the charges a month later�after watching the videotape, said her lawyer, Terrance Hoffmann.

Amazingly, the officer had justified Harmons arrest by saying she had obstructed traffic by getting out of her minivan.

Stop being so contrary.

There's quite a difference in "in-law nepotism" and "blood nepotism".

There's also quite a difference in "nepotism" and "flagrant nepotism."

Let's try that again:

quote: ââ?¬Å?The taser was designed as a tool to assist leo’s in subduing suspects who resist or are otherwise non-compliant.”

That’s bullsheet and you know it!

http://www.pointshooting.com/taser1.htm

Seattle Police Department (SPD) Special Report on Taser Implementation Year 1

The SPD report shows that the M26 Taser is an effective tool for use in temporarily disabling or stopping a suspect/attacker.

It has the obvious benefit over a firearm, of being effective, but less than lethal.

The M26 Taser - What is it and what’s it for?

The M26 taser is intended to provide officers with a force option to help in overcoming a subject’s combative intent, physical resistance, and/or assaultive behavior; in disabling or subduing persons bent on harming themselves or others; or in providing self-defense. As with all applications of force, officers using less lethal options are expected to use necessary and reasonable force to effect a lawful purpose.

(This is a proper use of the taser)

Traffic-related Incident #2 - officers attempted to stop a car for reckless driving, when it sped away. While following, officers learned that the car was stolen. The driver stopped abruptly and fled on foot, with officers also in foot pursuit. Once the subject was contained in a fenced area, officers attempted to get him to surrender, without success. Instead the subject turned and ran toward officers refusing to show his hands. One of the officers, who was equipped with a taser, applied it. The subject continued to be uncooperative as officers attempted to handcuff him, so a second cycle of the taser was used. After that, the subject was arrested without further incident.

(Here’s another proper use of a taser)

Violent Crime Incident - officers attempted to arrest a subject on a felony rape warrant. During a foot chase, the subject drew a spring-loaded knife from his clothing so violently that it was projected from his hand. During the pursuit, the taser was applied, hitting the subject as he was running. It brought him to the ground, but he still resisted as he was being arrested. After he was subdued, a second knife was recovered.

(This is a quote from the summary)

A review of the first year’s taser incidents suggests that the explicit goal to provide first responding officers with alternatives to deadly force when dealing with persons in crisis has been met.

(Ya see it? Alternative to deadly force. No application of deadly force would ever have been acceptable in The Hook story. Neither is the alternative to deadly force, By God!)

quote: ââ?¬Å?Maybe it’s a store where one goes to purchase fancy cops?”

There’s a lot of chiefs and sheriffs that wish such a place existed. They’ve had to lower standards so much nation just to attract applicants.

quote: ââ?¬Å?Oh, that’s just a term that Steve uses to try to annoy the cops that read/post on here.”

Interesting. Cops post and read here? That must explain the influx of insults, namecalling, and general rudeness we have seen so much of lately in The Hook blogs. I had my suspicions, but I think you’ve pretty much confirmed it now.

To clarify the consensus of this thread: the kid who ran got what was coming to him, and tasers are an effective but underutilized tool of law enforcement.

The police's actions in this case are nothing short of shocking

quote: "And you would be amazed at how a little pain changes someones attitude."

Correct. Ad there's been many cases where the misuse and abuse of a taser is in fact used as an attitude adjustment tool. You can view a lot of examples on YouTube just bt searching for "police taser abuse".

They were never designed to be used as an attitude adjustment tool!

From your own admission, I feel you could possibly have used a taser improperly in the past??

Have you no SHAME?

Gasbag Self Ordained Expert you are a stone cold liar and have lost the high ground on who you get to call out about their honor. This is the internet, quotes never disappear, they get cached.

It does not say the same thing as the quote you used, it's truly stunning how you really think it does.

I say goodnight to you sir, GOODNIGHT!

quote: "having to use a taser on a handcuffed drunk who is running faster than 4 sober cops is also pathetic.

Another reasonable opinion in the debate.

I agree with you!

Hello Pot (or is it Gasbag? or is it Sick of the Local Rambos? or is it Demopublican?),

Kettle calling. I'd bet you've posted on this thread under five different names already. Glass houses beeyatch.

I am confused by your response- no one asserts that a takedown, as an official policy, has to be violent- not me or anyone else. In fact, if the suspect had been tasered about 2 seconds earlier he would have hit the grass on the hill and might have had no injuries at all. As for tackling a person in full sprint that is always going to have some aspect of violence to it- written policy be damned. That's the laws of physics and Newton's laws of motion.

So if your problem with this is that you would have preferred a taser not to be used that in no way negates the very real possibility that this could have been the much worse if a taser had not been used. The possible outcomes I stated are quite real and not remote as you would like us to believe. There were mistakes made by both side (Smuggling booze and losing control of the suspect for starters) but the outcome isn't that serious nor a harbinger of systemic evil and corruption in our police department- it's kind of wrong to pretend otherwise

Steve, please start your own blog, thanks

quote: "Common sense from someone with a Bachelors degree in criminal justice. If you run from the police or fight with them or even refuse to obey lawful commands, you have just escalated the use of force."

Agreed. I guess it was their only tool, in their minds and yours, since it appears he was handcuffed and still outrunning the entire police force that had surrounded him. :)

quote: " Was the officer justified in tazing this guy, yes”Š Tazers are a non lethal tool to initiate compliance.

You better do some more research. The taser has killed over 400 people in the USA alone. Sure, they get the medical examiners to sign off that the cause of death was excited dilerium due to drug use in most of those cases. We all know medical examiners have no desire to hang cops out to dry. The use of cocaine and taser equals a death sentence in this country. We should be proud of ourselves.

quote: "It would not be safe for the officer to have a foot pursuit in a crowded stadium."

They weren't in the stadium."

quote: "So tazing the individual allowed the officer to gain immediate control of him without harming the person."

After viewing the video finally, he was outrunning the entire police force.

They didn't harm the person? Maybe you better watch the video on Channel 19.

This type of excessive force is what is causing people to go berserk and kill 4 cops sitting in a donut shoppe. And yet the media then reports the cops claim that it appears the killer had no motive. People are getting fed up with the Gestapo in the USA and their use of excessive force in almost all cases.

quote: "He will be charged with resisting arrest and hopefully a little jail time will make this guy use the brain god gave him."

The suspect has already indicated he will roll over and play dead at trial. Dayum if I would, but whatever blows his skirt up!

The only thing jail time will do is cause him to HATE cops for the rest of his natural life. One by one, nationwide, people are coming to distrust and HATE their police forces. Like the case in Connecticut last week when an idiot cop was driving 94 miles per hour for no reason and killed 2 innocent civilians. Imagine how that one town feels about their police services right now.

quote: "If you then run, like an idiot in handcuffs, well good luck to you”Šyou better head to a grassy spot so you have a better chance of not face planting on the asphalt!"

And more likely than not, this is exactly what was going through the minds of the cops!

quote: "Too many cop and robber shows, if you ask me, and not enough time to try out their fast cars -80mph chases (on a residential street), and taser guns."

Exactly! I have always said this new breed of rookie grew up watching the COPS TV show and playing violent video games WAY TOO MUCH! It's not about serving the community any longer, it's just one big lifelike video game to the these new rookies!

As much as I hate releasing all these little known secrets, I wish I had a ten dollar bill for every time the rookie cops nationwide have stood around and ridiculed and laughed at a suspect about soiling their pants at the conclusion of a taser application.

this idiot is lucky it wasn't a few years ago. the police could have used a gun

Tim Woodford

Quote : "It never stops to amaze me how these people think they can do what ever they want and there are no consequences"

I agree , I cannot belive the cops act this way and even more amazed when it is condoned by the public .

wow. if you keep repeating "they are not lethal force" does that make it more true? of course it doesn't.

Tazers HAVE killed people. This man could easily have died from the tazer. It's happened before, it will happen again and it could have happened here. I don't care what Barney Fife training you've received. The facts are that people have died from being tazed. Also, this man could have cracked his skull open on the pavement.

These cops were LAZY.

Whether or not it is "ok" to bring booze to Scott Stadium (and ignoring the question as to whether or not President Casteen would get tazed in this instance), the question remains whether or not it is "illegal"? Scott Stadium regulations hardly seem worth subduing a man to the point of unconsciousness. I hardly think Thomas Jefferson would approve of taking one's liberties over such a trivial offense, but it's not like we're in the cradle of liberty or anything.

Is this a police state or is this the land of the free? You can't have both.

The quote you used is not from the website but wikiapedia- you might want to try telling the truth when you are calling others a coward. Your time as a cop did not make you a lawyer, no matter how many court rooms you stood out in front of.

Pains me to say this, but I'm with Gasbag here. It seems to me like Tim Woodford just admitted to an inappropriate use of a weapon against another person. Any wonder people hate cops?

By the way, if the defendant had not already expressed his desire to roll over and play dead in court, he should be hiring an attorney and obtaining a copy of every second of video the TV station has. Depending on how much video the TV station has, it can either prove or disprove use of force and violence during his escape.

Based on the video alone, he can easily be convicted of the attempted escape. But the video could spell out the difference between a felony and misdemeanor conviction.

The funny thing here is the fact he didn't technically escape. He atttempted to escape. His attempt failed. The wording in the law addresses any person who DOES escape. I don't like the way some laws are actually worded.

CC

All jokes aside , my Mother was was physic, or maybe it was clairvoyant ;or at the very least she had eyes in the back of her head .

I always knew when she was using her secret powers , It started with my full name in a loud forceful voice , echoing from another room in the house .; usually to the tune of get your little azz in here because I know your up to NO GOOD .

Not easy growing up with a psychic as a Mother :)

Dakota

quote: "Escape in this case is a misdemeanor NOT a felony!"

Sorry, but you are mistaken.

Albemarle County General District Court
Case # GC09022960-00
Type: Felony Class: 6
Code Section: 18.2-478

18.2-478. Escape from jail or custody by force or violence without setting fire to jail.

If any person lawfully imprisoned in jail and not tried or sentenced on a criminal offense escapes from jail by force or violence, other than by setting fire thereto or if any person lawfully in the custody of any police officer on a charge of criminal offense escapes from such custody by force or violence, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-289; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1985, c. 555.)

quote: "..Too many police officers use the tazer as a toy..."

I agree. It's a fun toy too... to the rookies.
Watch the bad guy wet their pants and fall down.

It's better than the video games this new brand of rookies out here grew up playing.

Taser International has finally started losing some of the lawsuits field against them. And they have in turn changed the warnings associated with the weapon that are issued to the cop shoppes. Cop shoppes had better start taking notice.

quote: "Every cop with exception of ââ?¬Å?one” I know are good cops. . The one not so good cop is a good person but a ââ?¬Å?bad cop” in my opinion. This person has ââ?¬Å?power” issues in his personal life and brags about how he ââ?¬Å?is in charge” on the job."

Sometimes it's a small world. If you are talking about who I think you are talking about, they literally kept him housed indoors in a small broom closet which they coverted into an office for him. For whatever reason, and God only knows why, they have now put him back out on the street as a low level supervisor. I can't imagine him supervising anybody as many times as he has been sued for wrongful police actions. :)

quote: "You really can’t see how wrestling an escaping suspect to the ground in a parking lot might cause injury to the tackling officer??"

We will agree on one thing.... never say never.

Is that because you have never done it?

Ohh, I have done it. Many times. The worst that comes to mind was my tackling a young skinny kid trying to escape from Charlottesville General District Court after being denied bond. Along with the suspect, I went down on that floor very hard. The concrete floor was harder than pavement. The UVA football team would have been proud of me. Did I have to use my taser? Ahh..... Nope!

Honestly you can’t give us stories of how suspect, even while handcuff, have caused serious damge to themselves and others?

Again, never say never.

But in this case I would have preferred catching up to him and GRABBING him. There's no written policy anywhere that says it has to be a violent takedown or a violent tackle.

Let's start with the crime, trying to take a bottle of liquor into the football stadium. Why was he arrested ? Why didn't they confiscate the bottle and send him on his way ? Surely there must be more serious crimes ( bank robberies ) that warrant arrest, but this?

Too many cop and robber shows, if you ask me, and not enough time to try out their fast cars -80mph chases (on a residential street), and taser guns.

quote, "Shiftless Steve": "Gasbag sure seems to know alot about tasers. They must’ve tased him awake from his nap all those years ago in the courthouse”Š"

I wondered what took you so long to show up. You losing your touch, or simply tired of finally discovering can't embarrass me? :)

Please check in more often. OK?

The official police response was that they were tasing the man to protect him (i.e. keep him from running across a road and getting hit by a car). However, it seems like he was running towards the dorms up next to the Stadium where there are no roads.

Those police officers didn't have much time to consider their actions (the guy was making a run for it after all, something so baffalingly misguided they couldn't have expected it), while those of us who watch the video can think about it all day if we want.

The taser has undoubtably saved many lives, but it is also overused, as it seems to be in this case.

...On the other hand, getting tackled on that pavement could just as well produced the same face-planting results.

I was bothered by the tasing until I thought "what if they had tackled him from behind?". His hands were behind his back and he may well have suffered EXACTLY the same injury. The difference is the officer is less likely to get hurt and the suspect is now docile and compliant.

The only reason this is a story is there is video. The is little question this person's injuries are directly a result of his actions.

quote: "Gasbag will post something below this..."

Dancin' Smurf will too. :)

So, that's what this is all about? The last word?

What if a doozey of a taser video shows up? You don't think I will post it here in a heartbeat?

Your last word on the subject, eh? We'll see. You couldn't resist what YOU just posted, and I have the problem? Some of you need to take a serious look at yourselves in the mirror. :)

Tasing of a deaf man in his own home. failing to obey cop shoppe commands WHEN he can't hear them.

As always, the tasing was justified with a quick blurp from the cop shoppe chief.

---------------------------------------

Donnell Williams had just gotten out of the bath tub, wearing only a towel around his waist, when he turned the corner to see guns pointing right at him.

"I ain't never been so scared," says Williams.

Police forced entry into Williams home while responding to a shooting, but it turned out to be a false call. They had no idea at the time the call wasn't real and that Williams is hearing impaired. Without his hearing aid he is basically deaf.

"I kept going to my ear yelling that I was scared. I can't hear! I can't hear!"

Officers were worried about their own safety because at the time it appeared Williams was refusing to obey their commands to show his hands. That's when they shot him with a Taser.

Deputy Chief Robert Lee of the Wichita Police Department says, "This one occurred on the worst of calls, that being a shooting. The first few minutes getting control of the scene are very, very important."

Once the facts were all sorted out, officers repeatedly apologized to Williams. Police wish it never happened, but with the information they had at the time, their choices were limited.

"Do I wish there would have been some way they were notified in advance this gentleman was hearing impaired? I certainly do. No one is happy with the way it worked out," says Lee.

Williams was not hurt in the incident. Police say the shooting call came from a cell phone but they still don't know who made it or why.

The case is being reviewed by the department.

Mr. Shifflett, that seems to be you're name if the others hear are right. The name you use here is an insult and I won't use it to talk to you. You seem to be be in a great deal of pain and consumed by a need for vengence. If your a believer like I am, you know that God doesn't want you to suffer like that. You are blinded by it and can't see what the others here are even trying to say to you. My heart hurts and I ask you to please find someone who can try to help you. I'll pray and ask you to please ask a reverend or a doctor if you aren't a church going man for some spiritual help. You are hurting and I pray that you can find some peace before this goes to far and hurts you or the ones you love evn more.

brenda

@ Gasbag and I'm back:

§ 18.2-479. Escape without force or violence or setting fire to jail.

A. Except as provided in subsection B, any person lawfully confined in jail or lawfully in the custody of any court, officer of the court, or of any law-enforcement officer for violation of his probation or parole or on a charge or conviction of a misdemeanor, who escapes, other than by force or violence or by setting fire to the jail, is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.

18.2-478 stipulates the prisoner use force or violence during the escape...Are you telling me that simply running is force or violence? I didn't see him run anyone over or strike anything, other then the ground, as he ran away!

isn't a gas bag a whoopi chushion
you step on it and it goes

blooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

We are here to help. This isn't an attack. With the proper guidance this intervention can be a success!

This is good, this is good...now we've heard from Gasbag and Smurfs, I'd like to invite others to speak. Let's all use this as an opportunity to talk about how this makes us FEEL.

Blah, I am telling you what the Albemarle cop shoppe charged the man with....... a Class 6 felony.

I too wonder what evidence they are going to use to prove the force or violence during the escape.

You always charge high, and hope the defendant will accept a lesser charge in a plea agreement.

IMHO.......... the charge is nothing but a game. And the misuse and abuse of the taser is just one big video game. These rookies grew up playing violent video games and watching COPS on TV.

CC, please stop being mad at me for your getting mmoderated in this thread. I had nothing to do with it. I hadn't even noticed until you started whining about it.

Dakota, there were at least 2 different accidents involving cop shoppe cars in this immediate area alone. The state police incident was reported on, the other one was not. The damage to equipment bought and paid for by the taxpayer easily exceeds $30,000. It's no big deal. The roads were slick. And at least they were't engaging in very dangerous 85 mph pursuits at the time. :)

quote: "You’ll blather on about yourself and your many lawsuits ad nauseum to all those anonymous readers, but the minute you’re asked a direct question by one of them, you run and hide. Very telling, and not one bit surprising."

Again, I ask you 2 questions...

1 - What business is it of yours what attorneys I hire?

2- Even if if was your business, why would I respond and answer to a total stranger? At this point in time, you're nothing more than somebody using the name "Reality Check" presently.

quote: "Thanks for the yarn though. No matter how irrelevent it is, you seem to find a way to retell it about every other week here."

It's not totally irrelevant. It's actually right in line with the theme of this thread, wrongful or excessive actions by some rookies.

Notice that I said SOME ROOKIES please. The vast majority of cops are hard working and honest individuals. But the reputation of all is dragged down to the bottom by the few crooked ones. And by the few that don't know how to conduct themselves professionally after being given so much power and authority.

There's good, bad and ugly in law enforcement. Did I ever tell you about the time two cops stopped by the Spectrum East, had the owner slip a case of ice cold beer out the back door, and picked up two beautiful young ladies inside? They were still in uniform and in the cop shoppe car. The four of them went to a cemetery. One of the cops had to step outside for a second (use your imagination). It was extremely cold, so he left the cop shoppe car running and the heat on. The girl that was with him then slipped over under the driver's wheel, threw the cop shoppe car in gear and attempted to drive off. The cop in the back seat had to jump over and throw the car in park! Can you imagine the "UGLY" if the other cop had gotten out of the cop shoppe car too for a second? The drunk girls would have stolen the cop shoppe car and ended up wrecking on the way back to town. Probably would have killed somebody! I still get chills down my spine when I think about the night those rookies pulled this foolishness. God was with 'em that night, and most likely prevented a tradedy of monumental proportion from taking place. Even this tale is relevant to the thread, wrongful actions by cops. :)

1. If everybody insisted (like you) on responding each time someone posts a contrary opinion, no thread would ever end. Sounds to me more like you HAVE to have the last word. Curious.

2. I've never seen anybody on here claim that you were fired more than once from law enforcement. Somebody once confused you with the other Steve Shifflett who faked a shooting and blamed it on a made-up African American suspect, but you clarified that quickly if I recall. Otherwise, it's always just been the falling asleep on the job thing.

Oh yeah, before you get your panties in a wad, I'm not a cop, never have been a cop, am not related to any cops, and don't particularly want to be a cop.

How the heck would I know what has been moderated? I don't flash back through all the replies each time I come to this thread.

As far as content, this thread will probably reach 300 replies now. Because I have to keep responding to and answering questions a lot. If you have taken notice, people single me out and specifically want to comment on my opinions. Sorta like what you are doing right now. Ironic, isn't it? :)

As far as moderation, I can only imagine The Hook is going to start addressing all the lible, insults, namecalling, general rudeness and intentional disruption that is being posted. People have been showing their butts around here lately. And it's not about opinions, it's about people not liking this just person or not liking that person. I would also imagine they don't have the time or staff to put together the records for court subpoenas. The exact date and time of a post, the poster's IP address, copies for each and every post the same IP address has made on The Hook. Even if comments are deleted, I think The Hook is still peserving them.

And let me tell you a little secret in the form of an example..... nothing in this world would tickle me more than to subpoena records from The Hook and discover that a local cop has been here repeatedly claiming I have been fired twice from law enforcement. I would sue him/her, the agency they work for, and their chief or sheriff. People think they post anonymously here. But with or without a static IP address, they can traced and identified.

quote: "..Ah”Š Plausible deniability. Gotcha (wink wink). Non-apology apology accepted then..."

Hey, it's not over yet!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

This is to make your Blackberry go off.

again

and again.

Ok- I'll stop now. Don't want to rattle his cage anymore.

More misuse and abuse....

I just don't know what to say!

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=135409

Some of the participants in the thread said it best though I suppose....

quote: "I'm sorry, but if a deputy sheriff can not control a 10 year old boy physically (pipe or not) he needs to find another job."

quote: " I do think it is unfortunate that department has a deputy who can not effect the arrest of a 10 year old boy without the use of a taser."

quote: "I really hate to say it, and I hope it isn't so, but I think this may be part of the beginning of the end of the taser."

The rest of the rookies in the thread subscribe to the US vs THEM attitude and think anything goes. Very sad.

Yeah, as one cop I quoted above said, all of this seems to be the beginning of the end for the taser.

Another 10-year-old kid..... WTF is wrong with these rookies?

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134453

Won't work, Tim. :)

After I walk away I get an e-mail alert on my cell phone that somebody else has just posted a reply to this thread.

Hook ...it's time for an update PLEASE !

Or perhaps The Hook can do a report on all the rookies who tore up cop shoppe cars in the first snow storm of the year, Dakota! :)

Gasbag will post something below this...

quote: "10 posts in a row by the same person?"

quote: "... the torrent of text you had unleashed right before I stopped by."

Another point I would like to make before I forget...

quote, THE HOOK: "To avoid spam, all comments containing more than one URL/weblink are placed into a holding tank for administrator approval."

When I post FACTS, I like to include the URL/weblink I get said FACTS from. Therefore.... I must submit one reply for every one link. It's pretty easy to understand if you read THE Hook guideline I posted above in this reply. :)

I finally made it to the end but now I forgot what the article was about. Can you please write an article about the people that want to put their personal info out in a comment section. Oh yeah, the guy that ran from the police, he should have been tazered. He is lucky that is all that happened.

Mr/Mrs/Miss what??, We can debate this thing for a month with people trying to change my mind. It's not going to happen in this particular case. And I will tell you the reasons:

1- There's a very serious problem in this community if not one cop at the scene was able to catch this drunked handcuff in a foot race. I know a young petite female cop well. I guarantee even she could have caught him in a foot race. WTF was up with nobody being able to catch him and subdue him before whipping out and deploying a taser?
2- The taser was originally designed, manufactured, and distributed to law enforcement on the premise that it is a "less than lethal" law enforcement tool. It's original intent was to subdue or debilitate a person the cops would normally have to shoot and kill. It seems the original mission of the tool has changed.
3- From the beginning, the man had not assaulted anybody. He had not stolen anything from anybody. As far as I know, he hadn't even been acting in a disorderly fashion. He submitted to arrest, then got tased and attempted to escape?
4- If the cops caught up to him and then he started resisting arrest, then deploy the taser. Perfectly acceptable at this point in the game.
5- Some of you people don't realize that if he had fallen just right, there could have been massive brain truma, swelling of the brain, and eventual death. A death sentence for attempting to sneak a bottle into the stadium and for attempting to escape? This isn't Russia.
6- If the entire situation was worse than any of us know, maybe the cop shoppe should have said so in their carefully worded press release. That's what cop shoppe spokespersons get paid for, releasing carefully worded press releases. The statement that "evidently, somebody was having a problem with him" makes me sit back and wonder about their trying to justify the use of a taser for some reason. Was anybody having a problem with him or not?
7- The YouTube video I posted clearly shows how quick cops are to pull and deploy the taser. It shows misuse and abuse of the taser, IMHO. The suspect had not attempted to harm the officer at all. The video shows the taser is being used as a compliance tool now. That is not what a taser is suppose to be used for. It's not suppose to be a compliance tool or a "contempt of cop" tool.
8- See #1

Sorry, #5 was suppose to read:

"He submitted to arrest, then got scared, attempted to escape, and got tased."

Sorry, #3, not #5, was suppose to read:

ââ?¬Å?He submitted to arrest, then got scared, attempted to escape, and got tased.”

I've got to stop trying to do 5 things at one time. :)

quote: "Steve, please start your own blog, thanks"

Don't have time. :)

Well he will have his day in court. He will be convicted and when he is maybe you people will stop crying over how horrible it was that he was treated so badly. I shouldn't be surprized after all this is a liberal city.

I wish I could go find the officer that did this and shake his hand and personally tell him that he did an excellent job.

Lol tazers are Not lethal force. No one has ever died from being tazered. I urge anyone to find one medical examaner just one that will say "yeah he died cause he was tazered". If someone is on crack or PCP and has a heart attack thats their fault not the police. Tazers and Stun guns use volts. Volts hurt like hell but will not kill you. Amps kill you. You would literally have to tazer someone non stop for a extended period of time (quite a long time) to even come close to killing them. And for those of you who think Tazer will be sued for "being mean to the bad guys". Read this: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c=129937&p=RssLanding&cat=news... 100 lawsuits dismissed against Tazer and counting.

It boggles my mind to see all the experts come out on this story. Have we all forgotten that the police had already "done their jobs" and acted with the utmost restraint and respect to this individual? He had been stopped for a real violation of law, taken into custody, without incident by the officers, that's right not beating, no abuse, no wrong doing at all. Then he decides that the rules that govern all the rest of civil humans at this event do not apply to him. He decided to make the situation worse not the officers, he had simply done as instructed, ( no booze at game, don't over drink to point of being a problem, and once caught doing something wrong man-up and accept the conequences of his actions. ) this story would not even be being talked about because it wouldn't have happened. Say all you want about the reaction of the police but without the running away they don't get to use the taser do they????

Stupid Hokie got what was coming to him.

It never stops to amaze me how these people think they can do what ever they want and there are no consequences. If it is ok to bring alcohol into the stadium then why do people hide it under their cloths, in coolers and in unmarked containers and try to sneak it in? I think this is a good question. If it was alright they would just walk in with it out in the open. Can anyone answer this question huh?

Ok

Suppose the cop had seen him make a break for it and punched him in the gut to knock him to the ground instead of tazering him?

Would that be abuse of force? The jury would have to decide whether the cop did it to stop him from fleeing or to inflict pain.

The same is true here.

Too many cops use tazers for retribution for disobeying them.

If someone is stopped at a traffic stop and refuses to get on his knees while he is asking questions about why he was stopped, then the officer needs to decide whether to answer his questions to lower the temperature or use a tazer to solve it.

The cops that use the tazer when there is no imminent threat instead of simply answering one question deserve to be thought of as the a-holes that they are.

If police did their job better and explained to people why they were being stopped then 9 times out of 10 the situation would never have escalated in the first place.

The tazer is a free hit for the cops and they feel entitled to use it. That is why people hate cops and question their authority.

There are plenty of police who go through their entire career without a single complaint against them. People respect them and feel safe in their presence. Then there are the 90 percent who can't manage to do that because they are of the mistaken belief that they have "power" instead of responsibility.

This guy may have gotten what he deserved.. I don't know, but the tazer issue is a real one that will play out in courtroms at taxpayer expense.

Did any of you see that scene in "The Hangover" where the cops let a group of elementary school kids try out a taser on a couple of the handcuffed protagonists. Absolutely hysterical!

Tasers are funny.

NaCSer,

I did see that movie. Funny.

I gotta say, the TV footage of this Gobbler getting zapped is almost as funny.

quote: "getting tackled on that pavement could just as well produced the same face-planting results."

Rodney, not true! When getting tackled, natural reflexes would make a person turn their face to the right or left. It's a split second decision your brain makes instantly. Your brain learns this at a very young age.

With a taser, you go down instantly. And you go down hard! You have no motor functions to turn your face to the right or left.

"Bottom line is - you can’t bring booze into a stadium, it’s the law”Šif you try and get caught you suffer the consequences"

This is simply not true, truck loads of liquor are delivered to the stadium prior to each game. They are taken straight to the luxury boxes where the high paying fans and their guests are "over served" . If this poor sap had more money he would have had his bottle of liquor served to him in a Jefferson Cup

I can certainly understand you being disloyal to the very breed that you once were, or tried to be. You should know as well as anyone that the use of force is a wheel and not a ladder, giving officers the choice, based on the situation, which tool would be better.

"When getting tackled, natural reflexes would make a person turn their face to the right or left. It’s a split second decision your brain makes instantly."

I never knew you were a doctor, I knew you couldnt hack it as a cop, you got fired......more than once. Who can blame you for bad mouthing cops

So are you now finally admitting that you WERE a cop?

You need to take notes from now on. I have NEVER denied it. I was a sowrn deputy sheriff in Virginia for almost three decades, from the age of 20 years and 7 months. Before that I rode with Albemarle County deputy sheriffs 7 nights a week from age 17 to 21. This ride-along program of course was before the Albemarle County cop shoppe was even born. The Albemarle County cop shoppe was just a twinkle in the eyes of the county Board of Supervisors at the time. I learned more in these 4 years of ride-along than any police academy in the State of Virginia could ever teach me.

And did he escape because you had fallen asleep???

No. I was wide awake and expecting bond to be denied. I was also also therefore expecting him to try and escape. This was at a time period before Charlottesville could afford leg irons, car cages, and other much needed equipment to insure the safety of the community and the deputies. Anyhow, I was on top of him before he knew what hit him! I didn't have to brutalize him, I didn't have to tase him, I simply latched onto him and didn't let go as we went down. Once we hit the floor, Charlottesville police officer Ron Stayments (now retired) jumped up and helped me restrain him further. Stayments also didn't have to brutalize him or tase him. I guess the difference here is he wasn't trying to sneak a bottle into the courtroom before he ran. We couldn't have justified a taser. :)

Are you serious?? Did you even read the article or are you just grabbing at straws here?? He was under arrest for DRUNK in public. That would tend to make me believe he was intoxicated.

I place as much faith in cop shoppe press releases and charges as I do in Sears having the drill in stock that they advertised in today's newspaper insert.

And just because a Magistrate may issue the warrant doesn't make it so either.

I'll give you a prime example from 1996 - subject arrested for possession of a sawed off shotgun, a felony in Virginia. The official Albemarle County cop shoppe press release read subject charged with "sawed off shotgun". The Magistrate wrote the warrant on the sworn statement of the rookie. When it was all over and done with, it was a sherrif's office issued shotgun and it was NOT sawed off. It was of legal length. Sheriff's Office do not have a habit of violating BATF laws. ATF was immediately called in by the suspect to put an end to this foolish charge placed by the rookie. The cop shoppe then told ATF not to waste their time traveling to Charlottesville, because the rookie measured the shotgun wrong.

In other words, don't believe anything you read in an official cop shoppe press release.

CC, did you take notice that Tim also thinks letting a trained cop shoppe dog loose on a suspect is good entertainment too? And then when a suspect shoots and kills a cop shoppe dog, like happened right here in Albemarle County not long ago, the suspect is to blame when the good entertainment goes wrong.

IMHO, Tim is good cop material. He would fit right in with some of this new breed of rookies out here roaming the streets unattended.

Well it's like this.... If you run from the police you are resisting arrest period. The fact you are handcuffed has nothing to do with it. The guy jumped out of the van and took off running. The officers were most likely chasing him and commanding him to stop. He refused to obey and continued to run. At this point they had the right to physically stop him. You have several options here. Chase him down tackle him to the ground, tazer him, and yes they are even justified to release the dog on him or shoot him with a bean bag round from a shot gun. So I would say being Tazered was probably the least painful way to stop the guy. But then again if the idiot have listened and never tried all this he would of probably never been arrested in the first place. Personally I wish they had a K9 unit there and they let the dog loose on him. That makes some good entertainment. And no personally I have never tazered anyone but I did work as a correctional officer for many years and I have stungunned many non compliant individuals. And you would be amazed at how a little pain changes someones attitude.

the all knowing, all seeing tombstone salesman! He hates govt waste, but when the government canned him for sleeping on the job he complained. Hey- the taxpayers weren't getting their moneys worth because you were napping! Pick a side Steve!

Apparently Charlottesville is full of individuals (most likely little rich UVA kids who think they can do what ever they want and not get punished. Sorry kids your daddies money wont let you get away with stuff here. You want to discuss tazers so much run from a cop and experience it first hand for yourself. And when the judge convicts you try to burst out crying in the court room. We all love that...

I think it is funny that drunk individual was OUT RUNNING THE COPS!!! I think cops need to actually exercise! They should start by not eating Chipotle. Has anyone else noticed how there are always cops eating there.

Yes, they must serve half-price or free food to cops.

Arbys is a hot spot too.

If you ever find yourself being followed, harassed, or stalked, just drive straight to Chipolte or Arbys for police assistance. :)

Never did I once say Sheriff Raymond Pace hiring his brother-in-law wasn't nepotism. But I can assure you that absolutely NO favoritism was ever shown to Norman Kelso in any way, shape or form by the sheriff. That's the difference. And as I said, Norman Kelso was a workhorse!

Raymond Pace and Norman Kelso - the good ole days! Two of the finest people that ever worked for the City of Charlottesville!

The next best employee the department ever had was Linwood Shifflett. He was a workhorse too! But after getting into a courtroom brawl and being injured, life was made a living hades for him. He finally threw his hands up and resigned. How fed up was he? He was so fed up with the way he was treated after his work related injury that he resigned just days before being vested in the city retirement system. He couldn't even finish out that last few days before his being vested into the retirement progam. And that's a fact. Should he live to be 85 years old, that a large chunk of change he sacrificed just because he couldn't bring himself to finish out those last few days!

Gwinnett County Sheriff’s Department policy regarding deployment of the TASER International ADVANCED TASER M26/X26 (hereafter referred to as TASER).

Tactical Deployment.

1. Use common sense.

2. Use verbal commands and point laser sight at subject prior to firing.

3. Use to prevent violent confrontation.

4. Have a second air cartridge present or a second TASER ready to fire in case of a miss or malfunction.

5. When possible, have a backup officer (depending on the situation, possibly with deadly force option).

6. Use cover and distance to ensure office safety.

7. Optimum range is twelve to eighteen feet. Minimum range is three feet. Maximum range is twenty-one feet. If target runs, officer must run also to prevent wire breakage.

8. Aim at center of mass and from rear if possible. Watch for thick and/or loose clothing. If probes hit clothing, the electrical current can only penetrate from the maximum of two inches away.

9. Avoid use on slanted rooftops or on the edge of tall buildings.

This is the last thing our area needs. Clearly a misuse and abuse of an issued law enforcement tool:

Charlotte, N.C., for example, recently agreed to a $625,000 out-of-court settlement "to the family of a 17-year-old who died after being shocked with a Taser by a police officer at a grocery store," according to the Charlotte Observer. The Taser use was considered justified in the case, but the officer violated policy by holding the trigger down for 37 seconds, the Observer reported. The teen suffered cardiac arrest.

You can't trust these rookies out here with a tool like this. Period.

http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:PpujY0xpiXgJ:www.law.stanford....

Very long document from the THE STANFORD CRIMINAL JUSTICE CENTER, PREPARED FOR THE CITY OF MOUNTAIN VIEW. Here's the notable highlights:

a- The Use of Tasers by Police Officers should be limited to circumstances under which the use of lethal force would also be permitted.

b- We recommend that the city of Mountain View adopt a specific policy limiting police use of tasers to situations in which they would also be permitted to use deadly or
lethal force.

http://www.cityofvancouver.us/police.asp?policeID=31531&policeSubID=3154...

City of Vancouver

The TASER is intended to provide officers with a less lethal force option to help them overcome a suspect’s combative intent, physical resistance and/or assaultive behavior, to subdue persons who are intending to harm themselves or others, and to provide self-defense.

comment deleted by the moderator

Wow, glad they didn't kill him, could have hit his head and been a dead man running.

I'm sorry, but I just couldn't bring myself to doing this to somebody already in handcuffs. If they can outrun me IN HANDCUFFS, more power to them! A taser is an excessive use of force in this case, I don't care if the cop shoppe says it's justified or not! Absolutely pathetic.

You see the result... a face full of stitches and chipped teeth. But case after case around the country has shown the cop shoppe doesnt care where you land on the way down! Concrete curb, pavement, it makes it all that much more fun to the cop shoppe because after all..... it is "street justice".

There is a very valid point to be made about least force nessasary to apprehend a suspect. Too many police officers use the tazer as a toy instead of dealing using good old fashin police skills.

Now if they had waited until he was in open grass I might feel different, but had he cracked his skull and died, it wopuld have been up to a jury to decide what was appropriate (at taxpayer expense)

There needs to be very specific guidelines for tazer use.

Also,one way to prevent fleeing would be to install a knee bracelet that can be triggered by remote control like a shock collar.

They should also have gps ankle bracelets they could slap on the criminals so running would be useless.

Lots of alternatives to consider.

Welcome to 2009. Google is your friend. :)

Here's the efficient and proper use of a taser, using the device for what it was intended for:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgJF-nH01gg

Taser abuse.

Cop wanted so badly to use his taser that he invited the woman back out of her car.... after she complied with his orders to get back in the car.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dik-mgCDcg

Thank you Brenda. Now if everyone will take their seats, we can begin the intervention.

Here's a crazy thought: don't run from police = don't have to use force. Why all the skepticsm about police using a taser for uncooperative subjects? Should they bait them with a warm meal and a cozy bed to sleep off the booze? Or just a strong tone of voice when they say "please".

Some police officers use tazers for fun just as they do the high speed car chases . THEY LOVE THEM . I once had lunch with a couple cops in Staunton and they were bragging about warm weather and the "crotch rockets" were out and how fun it is to "get them to run " . I have heard with my own ears cops explaining how they can tell if a person is going to "take off" and how they would back off "a little " to give them a feeling of getting away so they would run harder .

tazers and high speed pursuits need to be banned ! "probable cause" in my opinion is the most abused power of LE !

Every cop with exception of "one" I know are good cops. . The one not so good cop is a good person but a "bad cop" in my opinion. This person has "power" issues in his personal life and brags about how he "is in charge" on the job . I would make a terrible cop ! I would not be able to remove personal emotion in some cases such as pedophiles . Send me in to arrest a pedo or child abuser and I would be the one in prison . I know my emotional limitations and I do not have the restraint to be a good cop in some situations . I admire the good cops who can , they are few and far between .

I did a few ride alongs in the early 90's in King George County . I know how the game is played in many situation with law enforcement . I learned how to do a " waffle face " on a stinking abusive drunk as we transported him to Fredricksburg lock up . What we did was SO WRONG by the law , But if you would have seen what that animal did to his live in girlfriend , he got off lucky ! He beat that woman unmerciful , it was my first domestic and boy was it aggravating . This woman needed to be in ICU, she looked so bad and she was angry at the cops for taking the animal away . OMG I couldn't believe this woman called 911 and then turned around and took up for the animal .Anyway the "waffle face " I learned quick when the cop doesn't put a seatbelt on a belligerent drunk whom is spewing horribly vile things about a women you just seen beat half to death , in return this women was taking up for this animal to hear him spew of vile things I learned quick a little street justice is well deserved . I was told on the count of three to brace myself , just as the subject was screaming like a freak the cop slammed on the breaks right in the middle of a separated 4 lane highway and the subjects face slammed the cage separating the subject . Good ol waffle face . poetic justice . Now to make it even better I was down a couple weeks later to see the female strolling down the street braises and all with the exact freaking fool that beat her, hand in hand . Yea , I would make a really bad cop !

Moe Capital, police brutality is the intentional use of excessive force, usually physical, but potentially also in the form of verbal attacks and psychological intimidation..... by the police!

It is in some instances triggered by "contempt of cop", i.e., perceived disrespect towards police officers. Therefore, "street justice" is immediately dished out. That's what sounds like happened here.

The taser is one step down from a firearm in a police "use of force" continuum. Would you shoot somebody fleeing from cops on foot? Heck no!!! A taser should not be used as well. The taser was originally developed and manufactred to be used on persons that are extremely aggressive in resisting arrest or while very combative. Using a taser on a subject fleeing on foot is almost as cowardly as shooting them in the back.

Don't worry though. The use of the taser will be justified in this case whether the public agrees or not. A few years ago 10,000 official complaints of miscoduct were filed in Chicago in a 2 year time period. Only 19 of them resulted in any action agaist the accused cops. That's what happens when you have cops investigating cops.

Common sense from someone with a Bachelors degree in criminal justice. If you run from the police or fight with them or even refuse to obey lawful commands, you have just escalated the use of force. Was the officer justified in tazing this guy, yes... Tazers are a non lethal tool to initiate compliance. It would not be safe for the officer to have a foot pursuit in a crowded stadium. So tazing the individual allowed the officer to gain immediate control of him without harming the person. He will be charged with resisting arrest and hopefully a little jail time will make this guy use the brain god gave him.

re:"Tazers are a non lethal tool"

except for those cases when they cause death.

re:"If you break the law the police are there to do a job. "

what "law" was broken? You can't bring booze into a stadium? Really? Are you telling me that John Casteen would be tazed if he brought some Maker's Mark into his luxury box?

Stadium regulations are not "laws". Show me where in the Virginia State Code or US Constitution that it says you can't have a legal substance in Scott Stadium. Show me where it says that these officers are granted the right to use lethal force (yes) to enforce Scott Stadium regulations.

A citizen with a bottle of booze is still a citizen. He has rights and should be treated accordingly.

It should be noted that Thomas Jefferson once fled from the British. He did not simply submit to their authority but instead rebelled against it. It is too bad that submission to authority is a virtue now extolled in his town.

Gasbag: "No. It’s a case where they never would have shot the man in the back in the first place for the crimes he had committed (I hope), so the same rule should apply to a taser."

You are exactly right, the cops wouldnt have shot this guy in the back as he ran. Thats why another option was used. That is the whole idea behind using something less than lethal. To give officers another option. Would you have been against them using their baton or pepper spray?? To me, pepper spray is on the same level in the continuim, that should be fairly common knowledge and agreable.

quote: "To clarify the consensus of this thread: the kid who ran got what was coming to him, and tasers are an effective but underutilized tool of law enforcement."

Wishful dreaming on your behalf. That's not at the concensus in this thread, or any other thread on the local news blogs. I have read them all, it's a pretty consistent 50/50 everywhere. 50% think he got what he deserved, and 50% think it was excessive or unneccesary force.

As more and more misuse and abuse is shown nationwide in the media and on YouTube, the taser will become taboo. Bank on it. It's an excellent tool when used properly and under the right circumstances, but cop shoppes nationwide are misusing and abusing them now.

If you break the law the police are there to do a job. If you then run from the police, they have EVERY right to stop you with whatever force necessary. Stop, means stop people.

If you aren't doing anything wrong you have a high probability of NOT getting tased...

If you think the US has a strict use of "force" head over to Germany... when they tell to you to HALT they mean, right now, stop or we have the authority to shoot you and they likely will.

Bottom line is - you can't bring booze into a stadium, it's the law...if you try and get caught you suffer the consequences. If you then run, like an idiot in handcuffs, well good luck to you...you better head to a grassy spot so you have a better chance of not face planting on the asphalt!

quote: "I wish I could go find the officer that did this and shake his hand and personally tell him that he did an excellent job."

And what's stopping you? Just report to the new Albemarle cop shoppe on 5th Streeet Extended and I am sure they will put you in touch with him. I don't think he's on any type of sick leave from having to chase the guy a short distance.

You could also bake a few dozen chocolate chip cookies and take them to the annual cop shoppe awards banquet.

And if you have a wealthy father-in-law who will make substantial donations to the Albemarle Police Association, you can get hired as a cop. And they will never fire you under any circumstances as long as your father-in-law keeps making those donations annually. :)

Using Tim's logic, until the cigarette companies lost in court, their product wasn't harmful!

Just because no judge has had the courage to stand up to LE regarding the use of tasers does not mean that the use of tasers haven't contributed to hundreds of deaths in north america.

Tim supports his argument with a link to a TASER International, Inc. (Nasdaq:TASR) press release. Funny!

Do you work for TASER international inc., Tim?

quote: "Too many cops use tazers for retribution for disobeying them."

Absolutely correct.

quote: "There are plenty of police who go through their entire career without a single complaint against them."

Those days are long over. This new breed of rookie, just as you say, think they have "Absolute Power", rather than an obligation to serve and protect. A lot of these new rookies have to be taken a notch or two pretty often, that's why you see so many lawsuits against cop shoppes now. And best of all, your taxpayer dollars pay to defend the rookies once they commit their wrongful acts, isn't that ironic? They routinely drag the lawsuits out for 5 to 7 years with hearings, motions and depositions.

quote: "Just because no judge has had the courage to stand up to LE regarding the use of tasers..."

First off, it's up to a jury.

Secondly, Taser International has recently lost it's first lawsuit. There will be more now. People have seen enough abuse of the taser to finally step in and award damages to the victims.

--------------------------

On June 6, 2008, the company lost its first product-liability suit.[20] A San Jose, California, jury said Taser had failed to warn police in Salinas, California, that prolonged exposure to electric shock from the device could cause a risk of cardiac arrest, attributing the death to inadequate training by the company.

The family was awarded $6 million dollars.

It's also important to note that Taser Taser has settled at least 10 cases involving injuries to cops during training. Out taser expert above, Tim Woolford, has a lot to learn. :)

If you were already stupid enough to get caught AND handcuffed AND run from the police you deserve what you get.

Gasbag sure seems to know alot about tasers. They must've tased him awake from his nap all those years ago in the courthouse...

Good Lord! The man wasn't tasered for trying to sneak a bottle into Scott Stadium, people. He got zapped for his escape attempt. There IS a difference, you know?

Sorry Steve,

I have to work for a living and cannot troll every waking hour here (unlike some people I know).

By the way, attempting to make a bunch of idiotic comments on an anonymous online message board analagous to some sort of referendum on police tactics is hilarious. Really stupid, but hilarious.

Or is it "Call it a Draw" too? Weak.

Get over your paranoia. I have used NO name other than Gasbag Self Ordained Expert here in this thread.

Paranoia is a very severe and debilitating disease. :)

Hawes Spencer, with my permission, please feel free to review my IP address, and confirm or deny if I have posted in this thread using any other name than Gasbad Self Ordained Expert.

We really need to help a few deal with their paranoia. Thanks!

You really can't see how wrestling an escaping suspect to the ground in a parking lot might cause injury to the tackling officer?? Is that because you have never done it?
Honestly you can't give use stories of how suspect, even while handcuff, have caused serious damge to themselves and others?

You cannot say with ANY certainty that the result that would have occurred without using the taser would have been a better one. The tackling officer could have been injuried and miss work due to a broken hand or other something else. The suspect could have kick an officer. The 25 year old could have been a great sprinter and could have been hyped up (naturally or otherwise)and cause damage to several officer.

Can't you admit for one second that this course of action might have been the best result or is your mantra more important then logical and reasoned debate?

"Apparently Charlottesville is full of individuals (most likely little rich UVA kids who think they can do what ever they want and not get punished." [sic]

I'd like to point out to Tim that the kid who got zapped was a Virginia Tech fan from Crozet.

What does your family do when you are trolling on the internet? Pretty miserable existence. Life's too short. Go spend time with your wife and kid!

comment deleted by moderator

Are you even a cop or a security guard?

Bag of gas or whatever name you hide behind, aka Steve S. I have a couple questions/comments about your most clever postings.

quote: "The worst that comes to mind was my tackling a young skinny kid trying to escape from Charlottesville General District Court after being denied bond."

comment: So are you now finally admitting that you WERE a cop? And did he escape because you had fallen asleep???

quote: "don’t recall there being any information that the suspect was either drinking or drunk at the time. He was attempting to sneak alcohol into the stadium, but was it for him? Had he already been drinking alcoholic beverages? Does he even drink alcoholic beverages"

comment: Are you serious?? Did you even read the article or are you just grabbing at straws here?? He was under arrest for DRUNK in public. That would tend to make me believe he was intoxicated.

I would merely suggest that you gather ALL the facts prior to posting. I will be the first to admit that everyone is entitled to an opinion and this is a debate. I do like your one quote that I will post as well, so I'm not just playing against you. But before I do that, just so you know....Wiki is not exactly the most correct information as anyone can put their two cents in on there.

ONE good quote:) "This is what is often called a debate. I argue my position, you argue yours. In the end, it doesn’t mean diddly squat which one of us is correct"

maybe he should file a discrimination suit... he was denied the right to bring alcohol into the event because of his economic status.

I think we need Obama to come down here and redisribute the wealth(ie. BOOZE)from the rich in the luxury boxes to the poor.. (the children of rich kids who go to UVA)

Let's review what we have so far:

Gasbag - thinks it was a totally inappropriate use of a taser

Nancy Drew - glad they didn't kill him, thinks the cops have been exposed to too many cop and robber shows, and not enough time to try out their fast cars -80mph chases (on a residential street), and taser guns.

WonderDonkey - thinks too many police officers use the tazer as a toy instead of dealing using good old fashin police skills.

Moe Capital - accuses the suspect of being drunk

Dakota - thinks some police officers use tazers for fun just as they do the high speed car chases

KDS - thinks the police have EVERY right to stop you with whatever force necessary.

Tim Woodford - thinks tasers are a non lethal tool to initiate compliance. He thinks they have never caused a death. And he thinks Taser International has never lost a lawsuit. He's very misinformed.

Theobviousjoke - thinks police’s actions in this case are nothing short of shocking

yepper - thinks a citizen with a bottle of booze is still a citizen. He has rights and should be treated accordingly

Rodney - think the taser is overused, "as it seems to be in this case." (his words)

charles - thinks the cops can do no wrong

NotaCopShooper - thinks the video is funny

Ben Franklin - thinks the video is funny too

OhMyGod - thinks double standards exist with alcohol being allowed in the stadium

naaaaccccccpppp - thinks Obama needs to come down here and redisribute the wealth (ie. BOOZE)from the rich

Walter C. - thinks the suspect got what he deserves.

-----------------------------

Summary:

I only see 5 people so far condoning the use of a taser in this event. And it proves my point that more and more people are losing faith in police response and the actions they employ once on scene.

The cops had better wake up soon, IMHO.

It's OK. No apology necessary. Just stop in more often is all I ask.

Anonymous online message board? Seems like you're the one playing the "anonymous" part, not me. Most spineless cowards do this. :)

bag of gas, your use of logic here is wanting. The suspect was interviewed on TV (shown from the nose down to highlight the injuries) and I seem to remember he admitted to have been drinking (could be wrong but how many people wait to start drinking once inside) You might know some things about cops but your opinion isn't everything or even final. Your assertion of what your reflex might have done even if you had been drinking is rank speculation and of course ignores the other factors involved (which you do when presented with anything that brings your constant refrain (all cops are bad) into question)

Doctors disagree, lawyers disagree, and well as nearly every other profession that has to make important life decisions. As you squat on this and nearly every other thread that has a whiff of law or crime; your pronouncements scream of the need to be right and how other must be wrong. This 25 year old man broke the law and suffered minor injuries due to his panic state as he broke more laws as he RAN AWAY while handcuffed (yeah I'm sure was totally sober). You can’t even admit that the suspect and some officer could have gotten injured even more if the taser was not used.

Trying to escape when you are handcuffed is pretty stupid and any injury he received could have been prevented by following the laws.
However, having to use a taser on a handcuffed drunk who is running faster than 4 sober cops is also pathetic. I think all involved need a reality check.

quote: "bag of gas... You might know some things about cops but your opinion isn’t everything or even final.

Agreed.

This is what is often called a debate. I argue my position, you argue yours.

In the end, it doesn't mean diddly squat which one of us is correct.

quote: "You can’t even admit that the suspect and some officer could have gotten injured even more if the taser was not used.

Correct. I don't see how injuries worse than those reported probably would have or could have taken place. It's not like the small army of cops was chasing the suspect around lanes of travel during rush hour on 29 North.

And what's up with the video anyway, why could none of the cops catch this guy on foot? I never set any land speed records myself. But I bet I could catch a handcuffed man BEFORE having to resort to a taser in such a simple crime.

diagoliv, I don't recall there being any information that the suspect was either drinking or drunk at the time. He was attempting to sneak alcohol into the stadium, but was it for him? Had he already been drinking alcoholic beverages? Does he even drink alcoholic beverages?

Even if I am drinking alcohol, I think my natural reflexes would kick in enough to turn my face away from immediate danger.

Oh bag of gas, when you're drunk motor reaction is slowed-so there is every reason to believe that the injuries could be exactly the same. There could have been a curb or a thousand other things that could have affected the take down.

Running away from cops is bad and this person injuries are almost all his own fault. There is always better ways to do something but this type of thing is rarely perfectly done.

diagoliv, let me try this one more time. The quote in bold font here is direct from the Taser International web site, please read it carefully:

Tasers were introduced as less-lethal weapons to be used by police to subdue fleeing, belligerent, or potentially dangerous subjects, often when what they consider to be a more lethal weapon would have otherwise been used.

Do you see the magic there? Straight from the horse's mouth, Taser International -- "....when what they consider to be a more lethal weapon would have otherwise been used."

In other words, Taser didn't intend this weapon to be used on a fleeing subject unless it was apparent the cops would feel justified in actually shooting the subject with a firearm and killing him. Taser introduced the taser as one step down from using deadly force. But..... cop shoppes nationwide have pretty much proven they will use the taser any dayum time they feel like it. Because when cops investigate cops, there is no official wrongdoing under almost all circumstances. This is the problem I see in this particular application of the taser. We can debate it for a week, but you won't change my mind about this being a totally unacceptable cop shoppe use of a taser. I see it as a cowardly action.

It may well be on Wiki. I thought I found it on the Taser International site, but I can not find it there again now.

I do find this on the Taser International web site, which basically says the same thing:

TASER devices use proprietary technology to incapacitate dangerous, combative, or high-risk subjects who pose a risk to law enforcement/correctional officers, innocent citizens, or themselves in a manner that is generally recognized as a safer alternative to other uses of force.

The suspect in this case was not dangerous, he was not combative while fleeing on foot, and I don't see where he was the usual high risk subject.

quote: "I never knew you were a doctor..."

Now you do.

quote: "...I knew you couldn't hack it as a cop, you got fired”Š”Šmore than once."

Where the heck do you people get this false information from? You need much better sources.

Goodnight, diagoliv.

Come on, folks! Are you as Country Bumpkin as some of you sound?

Still living in 1975?

For $90 a month nTelos will give you a Blackberry with ulimited text, image and data. You can participate my Internet from anywhere in the few seconds it takes to reply.

You've heard it before on the Interet I'm sure, but I really am rolling in the floor laughing at that last question.

quote: "You should know as well as anyone that the use of force is a wheel and not a ladder, giving officers the choice, based on the situation, which tool would be better."

That's the most redundant remark I have ever heard. Even a 14-year-old kid knows you can't shoot a shoplifter. Likewise, they also know you don't physically fight a murderer using a baton. It's pretty obvious to anyone with an IQ over 56 that use of which tool depends on what a cop is dealing with.

In professional cop shoppes, the use of force continuum is most certainly a ladder moreso than a wheel.

Maybe this is the trouble in the county cop shoppe, they believe in the "wheel" theory too, and they think they can do as they please? "Spin the wheel, ohh goody, I get to tase this guy!" :)

wiki --

The first examples of use of force continua were developed in the 1980s and early 1990s.[2] Early models were depicted in various formats, including graphs, semicircular "gauges", and linear progressions. Most often the models are presented in "stair step" fashion, with each level of force matched by a corresponding level of subject resistance, although it is generally noted that an officer need not progress through each level before reaching the final level of force. These progressions rest on the premise that officers should escalate and de-escalate their level of force in response to the subject's actions.[3]

quote: "First off you have to be trained and certified to use the tazer."

Yeah. You have to be trained and certified to carry a firearm too. Yet we had several deputies that had to shoot the course 4 to 6 times each outing just to achieve a passing score of 70%. It scared the heck out of me to have them carrying guns within 100 yards of me on any given day.

Bottom line -- training and certification does not mean a cop is proficient with the weapons they are issued.

You're correct though, most rookie cops don't care if the public hates them. Because it has become an "US vs THEM" attitude out here on the street. They believe nothing, they trust nobody. If a 25-year-old black male in a white BMW robs a bank, they will stop a 45-year-old white female in a black BMW and take her out of her car at gunpoint, face down on the pavement in rouring down rain (true story).

Anyhow, this rookie "US vs THEM" foolishness is why I have had to file so many successful lawsuits against these guys and girls in the last decade.

God what a bunch of cry babies. First off you have to be trained and certified to use the tazer. If they didnt know what they were doing they would not be issued one. So I suppose next time they should kindly ask him to stop and lure him back with milk and cookies? And for the comment that most people hate cops well I assure you most cops dont care lol... The point is you can hate them all you want. When you need help who do you call?

quote: "The Magistrate wrote the warrant on the sworn statement of the rookie."

That sounds like an implication/accusation that the police would purposefully lie. DIP is only a class 4 mis, I doubt any officer would put his career or reputation on the line for that. Anywho, the real question that I want to ask is this. Is it neccessary for you to personally attack the officers? If you disagree with the decisions made, thats one thing. It doesnt mean that they are bad oops or bad people or just out to there to "abuse their power." Being in law enforcement for so long, you must know that the easiest thing for people to do is play Monday Morning Quarterback on the decisions that you made. Hindsight is always 20/20. Bottom line is times change and so does police work. Methods used 30 years ago just arent practical now. And as for street justice....I think that was much more the case 30 years ago than now. Reason being is I bet most cops are worried about whether their traffic stop is going to be caught on a camera phone or other daily duty is going to be caught on camera. Based on your times of service, it sounds like you were a cop in the 70's if not earlier. Do you honestly believe that there is more "street justice" now than there was then???

quote: "I am having trouble understanding how someone can get arrested more than once for the same thing, even though you said you got off both times."

By God, I rest my case! Living proof of what I said above! :)

The first false arrest by a rookie in 1996, for the sake of argument, let's call it a "mistake". I was a sworn deputy sheriff in Greene County, Virginia.... whether the rookie liked it or not.

The second time, 2005, for the same alleged crime, took place because a local cop gave false information to another cop 120 miles away. That's not a typo, 120 miles away. This local cop (no longer a cop) had been sued in the first false arrest. The rookie cop 120 miles away who issued the arrest warrant believed she was being given accurate and true iformation by this local cop at the time. You get the picture now? It's not hard to figure out. Ultererior motive? Vengeance? Retaliation?

The suspect 120 miles away was 20-ish years old, hispanic male, jet black hair, and 140 pounds. If the judge could have snapped his finger and made me 20 years old, 140 pounds, and given me jet black hair again, I would have entered a plea of guilty. :)

The judge saw what was going on. He tossed the false charge out of court before I had to utter one single word of defense. Thousands and thousands of tax dollars spent on the prosecution of this criminal case. Not to mention the many thousands of dollars of tax dollars spent trying to defend against my wrongful arrests lawsuit.

None of this took place while I was working in Charlottesville. All of it took place after I had left. As far as timing, it all started after I had the incumbent sheriff that I might seek election by opposing him in the next election.

During the first false arrest 1996, the sergeant on duty for the arresting agency was my brother-in-law. Of all people, he knew I was a deputy sheriff in Greene County. He was later terminated from employment after 20+ years on the job.

You prove my point well. You hear and recall what was in the official cop shoppe press releases. You ever hear the truth and innermost secrets behind the scandals.

Can we all get back to talking about the event in this news report instead of concentrating on me? You know the drill, debate the opinion, not the author of the opinion. :)

quote: "...read between the lines, I mean you are pretty much saying that the cop who tased this idiot is incompetent and shouldnt be a cop."

No, no, no! I am not saying that at all.

I am saying it is my impression from watching the video that "unnecessary or excessive force" was used. I personally contribute it to a lack of training and supervision. There's been more then one lawsuit filed against the Albemarle cop shoppe alleging a failure to train and supervise properly. While I don't recall the exact amount right now, I believe they had to pay out $4 million in one such lawsuit.

quote: "And if you have a wealthy father-in-law who will make substantial donations to the Albemarle Police Association, you can get hired as a cop. And they will never fire you under any circumstances as long as your father-in-law keeps making those donations annually."

It's a inside joke, told by their own officers. I've heard it from so many, there must be some hint of truth to it? :)

Stragely enough, I have heard it from civilians too though.

I think the one you might be thinking about worked there before he even had a father-in-law.

anytime a story pops up that mentions law enforcement. He has this incredible chip on his shoulder about things that have allegedly been done to him by officers in the past. Whether he deserved them, or was just one of the lucky ones that got off in court, or Willie saved his tail - that is a different story.

Steve is living in the old days and "how we used to do it back then". @I'm Back is correct that officers now are more aware of cameras, etc. monitoring their actions. I would not want to be a cop in these times, especially in a liberal city like cville. This city hates being policed. "Just let us smoke our weed on the mall in peace" is what they whine!!

Steve misses law enforcement, he truly does. He sits back and watches these young cops and thinks that they can't do anything right - and in his eyes, they can't. It's all envy. That's all it is. The mistakes that get publicized now are no different than things that have happened time and again. Information is just so much more accessible now with the internet and blogs, etc.

Should the cop have tazed the guy in cuffs?? Who knows. I expect they could have caught them without the tazer. Cops make mistakes - both young and old. Steve- you made those mistakes too, you just ended up paying the ultimate price for yours. That mistake, however, should not have prevented you from serving again as an officer. You took a nap for Christ's sake. That's no different than cops catchin some zzz's on midnight shift.

why is it that you keep getting picked on by the police then? Do you think that they have nothing better to do than think up ways to screw with you? From your statements, it seems like this went on throughout your career and afterward. I just don't get it. I am having trouble understanding how someone can get arrested more than once for the same thing, even though you said you got off both times.

quote: "Is it neccessary for you to attack the officers on more of a personal rather than on a professional level?"

I do not feel I attack on a personal level. If I wanted to attack any cop that I feel is dishonest on a personal level, I would list names in the tales I tell.

I'll never forget what a small handful of crooked lying cops attempted to do to me. It was embarrasing to me and my family. Lawsuits were filed, heard, and/or settled, so I therefore feel somewhat vindicated by all the money they handed to me. But I will never ever forget what they tried to do. Never.

Ya see, here's the real problem. Once you have been a sworn deputy sheriff for almost three decades, and then your picture shows up in the media for one (false) arrest after another, it's front page news. But once the (false) charges are dismissed and laughed out of court, and lawsuits filed, heard, and/or settled, it never even makes the news. My (false) arrests started with a rookie and ended with a rookie. My war is with these newfangled rookies who could cause havoc escorting a two car funeral. And my war is against the cities, counties, police chiefs and sheriffs who sit back and deny their rookies did anything wrong so as to lessen their own civil liability in the resultig lawsuits their rookies bring upon them.

Now apply everything I have said to today's law enforcement. Cops never do wrong, because the chiefs and sheriffs are looking out for themselves. The sooner they admit a cop used excessive force and will be dealt with, the better. Do I honestly think the cop used excessive force in this tasing? Absolutely. And that is what I have said here since my first posted reply. If that is what you consider to be a personal attack on one cop, I'm sorry. Nobody here will change my mind that this was excessive force cosidering the totality of the circumstances.

quote: "That sounds like an implication/accusation that the police would purposefully lie."

Implication? There is no implication. :)

You do realize there's a former commonwealth's attorney that would not use certain cops testimony in criminal cases because of the cop's reputation for truthfulness in the community?

quote: "Whether he deserved them, or was just one of the lucky ones that got off in court, or Willie saved his tail - that is a different story."

Six (false) criminal charges over the last decade and the judges believed me over ALL the cops in ALL the cases? Keep on dreaming. Just didn't happen in this lifetime. :)

Retired Sheriff William Morris is one of the most honest and trustworthy law enforcement officers I have ever known in my life. He had no reason to lie and he did not lie. Even though he most certainly did feel a cop shoppe was asking him to outright lie against me in order to save their own bacon.

quote: "Do you honestly believe that there is more ââ?¬Å?street justice” now than there was then???"

Yes.

quote: "DIP is only a class 4 mis, I doubt any officer would put his career or reputation on the line for that."

We had a local cop put his career and reputation on the line for shoplifting a $13 dollar CD at K-Mart. He was terminated. Another (sergeant) terminated for signing speedometer calibrations he had NOT lawfully conducted. Another for taking 2 juvenile girls to a motel. Another for watching striptease shows while on duty (I think he was railroaded though). Countless fired for smacking their wives and girlfriends. The list goes on and on. Honestly, don't preach to me the silly things they forfeit their careers and reputation over. You and I both know better! :)

quote: "Steve misses law enforcement, he truly does....

...you made those mistakes too, you just ended up paying the ultimate price for yours. That mistake, however, should not have prevented you from serving again as an officer.

Nope. I was fed up with the profession. The nepotism and favoritism had become sickening. Add to it my sitting in court and watching cops lie under oath. I was the defendant, I knew they were lying. Cops calling my sheriff with false tales all the time. Example --One cop he saw me do so and so while he was sitting on the top floor of the Water Street parking garage watching me at the Magistrate's Office at 3:00 a.m. one morning. He forgot the garage was locked and chained, he had no access to be on the top floor. Bet he really felt like a fool when the stuff hit the fan. :)

I turned down full time job offers in law enforcement. I wanted nothing whatsoever to do with it again.

quote: "You took a nap for Christ’s sake. That’s no different than cops catchin some zzz’s on midnight shift."

In theory, you're right. The accusation was I fell asleep in court. I was suspended for it.

Fast forward, I filed a grievance complaint over the wrongful suspension. I was then terminated after I filed the grievance complaint. The sheriff refused to honor the agreement that his deputies shall have access to the city grievance procedure.

I had already won two grievance procedures hands down! I guess filing a third was "contempt of sheriff". :)

quote: "Should the cop have tazed the guy in cuffs?? Who knows. I expect they could have caught them without the tazer."

That's what this debate is about. I think they should have been able to catch him too. There's a serious problem in this community if a small army of cops can't catch a hadcuffed drunk on foot. (Some say he was drunk, I don't know). But they are all way too eager to use this newfangled taser that has been assigned to them. As more and more misuse and abuse takes place with tasers, I think you will finally see them taken away from the cop shoppes. There's many videos out there now where 100 pound old grandmas have been tased. No excuse for it whatsoever.

Let me tell you another tale about false accusations. Somebody was keying up the police frequency one evening. More on this later....

I had already been accused of this mischief activity before on prior occasions. And one went so far as recording me on the sheriff's frequency and playing it back so as to be recorded on a police frequency. They were playing extremely dirty games when they should have been out serving and protecting the community. Your tax dollars at work!

OK, back to the tale. Somebody started keying up the police frequency again. Intentional mischief. I was at the Magistrate's Office talking to Officer Nancy Eisman. I specifically asked her to take notice that somebody was playing on the police radio AGAIN, and to take notice that it was NOT me. She took notice and recorded the date and time. Sure enough, I was later accused of this mischief on this particular day and time. They were quite surprised to learn I was sitting with a cop and talking to her.

In another false accusation, I was actually standing at a local school talking to a police officer face to face. He, my alibi, actually failed to appear in court. Said somebody told him the case wasn't going to be heard for whatever reason. Yeah, sure! Uh huh! The judge tossed the case without my having to utter one word! He knew what was going on. :)

Once you work in a cop shoppe or sheriff's office and make a few enemies in the profession, they will misuse and abuse their badge/power to retaliate against you big time. The sad part is the others that will be voluntarily sucked in and conspire and lie with them. It's all in the interest of making a few brownie points and lessening department liabilityof course when the lawsuits came down the pike.

Ok, so I looked back at all the posts you have made in reference to this incident. I will bow down and admit that you have not come right out and said something personally negative about the officers involved. However, one cannot help but read between the lines, I mean you are pretty much saying that the cop who tased this idiot is incompetent and shouldnt be a cop. As for cops investigating cops. I can tell you firsthand, I wish I had some of "those cops" investigating me, because I feel like I have been burned a few times myself. I have my opinions about those people, but I dont let that ruin everyone else. After reading your recent most posts, I can somewhat understand why you feel the way you do about those certain cops who did you wrong. What I still dont understand is why you think ALL cops are like that. I have met and worked with my fair share of two faced, disloyal cops who are only out to better themselves at others (often subordinates) expense. I still dont let one bad apple ruin the bunch. Two last comments. First, I think there is a huge difference in Excessive and Unnecessary Force, we will just leave it at that. And lastly, I think its extremely obvious, at least to me, who the low level supervisor from the broom closet is. What I cant figure out is if it is the same one as u are referring to below

And if you have a wealthy father-in-law who will make substantial donations to the Albemarle Police Association, you can get hired as a cop. And they will never fire you under any circumstances as long as your father-in-law keeps making those donations annually. :)

Watching the new Steve Seagal cop shoppe show on the Arts & Entertainment channel. He has one up on me.

He calls them...... "these kids".

I call them..... "these rookies". :)

"Six (false) criminal charges over the last decade and the judges believed me over ALL the cops in ALL the cases? Keep on dreaming. Just didn’t happen in this lifetime. :)"

VS

"The chip on my shoulder comes from being subjected to a long series of false arrests for the last decade. 7 false arrests between 1997 and 2005."

Hawes Spencer, with my permission, please feel free to review my IP address, and confirm or deny if I have posted....using any other name than Gasbad Self Ordained Expert. "

VS

at least I use the same user name 98% of the time unlike the rest of the anonymous cowards do here.

Hmmmmm, come on now.....make up your mind :)

So a Sheriff hiring his brother-in-law IS NOT nepotism, but a Sheriff hiring his son IS nepotism? Because you say so?

Wow, you're right. That IS strange.

Mr/Mrs/Miss Holy Crap, are these really serious questions?

It takes very little time to post a reply here. Even long replies. And of course this is why you might notice so many typos and/or accidentally deleted words as I compose my replies here. I don't waste a lot of time proofreading.

17 replies in 8.5 hours might take 15 to 20 minutes.

So, I answered your question, more or less. Now to get back on topic here, answer a questionn for me please. Do you feel excessive or unnecessary force was used when tasering a person after a small army of cops, for whatever reason, didn't seem to be able to catch him in a very short foot race? After all, the original intent of the taser was to be a less lethal means of force. It was never intended to be used just any ole time a cop felt like it. In other words, when a suspect is NOT actively and physically fighting a cop hand to hand, and is NOT actively and physically harming any other citizen, is a taser justified? You know my answer is NO. What's your answer? :)

ps - let me add to my last reply please. Even if the handcuffed suspect had successfully continued to outrun a small army of cops on foot, and we assume he eventually got away, what's the big deal? It's still a felony. And they knew who he was already. They could have sworn out the warrant and arrested him later. It's not like this guy was going to flee to some foreign country simply for his attempting to sneak a bottle of liquor into the stadium. I doubt he would even flee this country just to evade an escape charge.

More likely than not, the suspect would have voluntarily turned himself into the cop shoppe within 24 hours.

The attempted escape was nothing more than "contempt of cop", IMHO. As in, "You aren't going to make me look bad on my shift!"

Another concern I have is the fact that this tasing event probably wouldn't even have been released to the public if the local TV station hadn't caught it on video. :)

Mr/Mrs/Miss Holy Crap, I see my point about waste in government went right over your head.

Aside from your unemployment implication, I work 40 hours+ a week. But I pick and choose the hours to suit the needs of my clients. If I am out until 9:00 p.m. one night, I might not be on the job all bright eyed and and bushey tailed at 8:00 a.m. the next day.

Pop Quiz time - tell me if the cop in this video was too quick to draw his taser please. And I will tell you right up front, there was a county cop fired not long ago for not much more than is on this video - assault and battery by a police officer. The only difference is the local county cop laid the suspect in the floor and repeatedly battered him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FRnh9f1NnU

Escape in this case is a misdemeanor NOT a felony!

quote: "I think the moron got what he deserved. If I run from the cops, I’d expect to get tasored."

The direction law enforcement headed, you might get your wish someday. You might get tasered for simply taking too long to pull over when the cop shoppe attempts a traffic stop on you. Or perhaps when you get into a verbal confrontation with a rookie cop. As much as tasers are being deployed nationwide now, you might simply be an innocent bystander even. :)

So you’re unemployed?

Ahh... no.

But I will say I don't sit around on city, county, state federal, or company computers posting from company supplied Internet while at work. Like so many people here and elsewhere do. You can usually spot them easily. They start posting after they get to work and finish their first three cups of employer provided coffee, and they stop posting about 4:00 p.m. so they can take an hour to drink more coffee, use the restroom and slip out the door unnoticed about 15 to 30 early. :)

Gasbag,

First off, thank you for setting Blah straight in the misdemeanor/felony issue.

I do have a comment about another one of your postings though.

quote: Another concern I have is the fact that this tasing event probably wouldn’t even have been released to the public if the local TV station hadn’t caught it on video. :)

You are absolutely correct in that. I believe we both think that for seperate reasons though. I think that there was no reason for this to be released to the public. Does the ACPD really have nothing better to do than make a huge deal everytime someone is pepper sprayed or tazed?? That would be comparable to doing a press conferance everytime a traffic summons is issued. Do you ever notice that there are very rarely news stories on how much narcotics are seized in the area, or how many prostitution arrests are made. Yes, in the local area being the city and the county. I know that may be hard for some to believe, but yes, there really is crime that happens in your backyard. To me, it would make much more sense to spend time, energy and tax payer money releasing stories that matter. This may be the wrong question to ask you in particular. But wouldnt you much rather know that your next door neighbor was dealing crack and pimping young girls than an officer tased an escaped prisoner??? And I know that you are probably thinking that they wouldnt have released it in an effort to cover it up. That is simply not the case. The fact is that it happened in front of hundreds of people, a cover up just isnt feasible, nor would there be any reason to cover it up.

Hey Gasbag,

What DO you do for a living? Looking back over these posts, you spend a LOT of time here. I know you've said before that you just respond extemporaneously via wireless handheld, but still. On Tuesday alone, you made seventeen posts between 9 and 5:21 (many of them quite lengthy). Nobody I know who has a job has the time for that kind of involvement. How do you do it?

Just curious. :)

I think the moron got what he deserved. If I run from the cops, I'd expect to get tasored.

So you're unemployed?

I will promise to have the last word then.

ok

Yeah, I guess not using the company computer makes all the difference in the world.

Mr/Mrs/Miss I'm back, the point I was attempting to make is the fact that there's a lot, and I mean a lot, that goes on that the public never knows about. Just one example, do you think every local case of a cop getting terminated for beating up his wife or girlfriend is publicized? Well, of course they aren't. This stuff is swept under the rug. It makes the chief or sheriff look bad! The only cases that actually achieve media attention are the ones where anonymous tips are leaked to the media by officers within the department(s). Then the sheriffs or police chiefs will fess up. But only then.

The other point I will make is the fact this kid was injured much worse than some of the wives and girlfriends cops have beat up. Me, as a taxpayer, I would like to know when serious injuries are involved in any government action. God only knows the truth the authorities tried to whitewash in the Ruby Ridge event. They failed miserably, but they tried. And don't even get me started on Janet Reno and all of her alleged escapades in attempting to cover up wrongful government actions.

Ya see Bud, for years and years the police have picked and chosen what they want to release to the public. The Magistrate's Office was the same way. They had one tray the media had public access to, and they had a seperate tray for things certain parties didn't want the media to see. whoops, my bad! There goes another deep dark secret out of my mouth!

quote: The only difference is the local county cop laid the suspect in the floor and repeatedly battered him.

Whoa Whoa Whoa now. There is absolutely no way to compare these two incidents. The cops that tasered the guy was taking him into custody.....again, because the guy escaped the first time. Had the cops commenced to kicking him while he was down or punching him in the face after just to get some anger out then maybe you would have a point. But just to put it out there, this guy committed a FELONY in front of these officers. A mild shock of a taser is more than justified. I think this may be one of the lower quality postings you have made. The difference is night and day.

Whoa! Wait a minute there Gassy. I'm not sure everybody is clear on your position here. If you repeat it a couple dozen more times, you might actually get the last word... for what that is worth.

Dakota............... psychic. :)

I think all mothers have psychic abilities.

Gasbag,

The "attempt" issue is not a factor. In VA, any felony that is attempted is still charged and sentenced as the felony crime. So, if a person attempts to steal merchandise valued at over $200 but is stopped by security, does he get to walk away or get a lesser charge? No, he is still charged with Grand Larceny because thats the felony he attempted.

You call it rolling over and playing dead. Reasonable and Responsible people would call it being a man and taking responsibility for their actions:)

quote: "Reasonable and Responsible people would call it being a man and taking responsibility for their actions :) "

Well, actually, that's what the suspect is ready to do. He said in a Channel 16 interview that he is ready to roll over and play dead in return for a misdemeanor conviction.

It's going to be interesting to see the "force or violence" evidence that raised his charge to a felony level. Is there any? If there isn't any "force or violence", does he meet the criteria required under the code section he is charged with?

And yes, I know attempted is as good as completing a crime in certain cases. I said I don't like the way the laws are worded. The law should read any person who escapes or attempts to escape. I'm just not connecting the dots and making myself clearer enough to you I suppose. :)

Here's the way the law should be written:

§ 18.2-478. Escape from jail or custody by force or violence without setting fire to jail.

If any person lawfully imprisoned in jail and not tried or sentenced on a criminal offense escapes from jail by force or violence, or attempts to escape, other than by setting fire thereto; or if any person lawfully in the custody of any police officer on a charge of criminal offense escapes from such custody by force or violence, or attempts to escape, he shall be guilty of a Class 6 felony.

(Code 1950, § 18.1-289; 1960, c. 358; 1975, cc. 14, 15; 1985, c. 555.)

quote: "I dunno. Seems to me like sum poeple hear jus keep re-stating there opinions over and over but its really just the same persons opinion. I bet more think its was ok than dont. Everybodu I know think it was ok."

Take a pad and pencil and keeps notes as you scroll through all the replies. You'll see the divide on pro-taser and anti-taser is about a 50/50 split. Don't count my opinion more than once, I am sure I have stated my objection to them using in a case like this more than once.

There's a right time and place for a taser. It is an a very desirable and effective "less than lethal" weapon. Was this a case where the cop shoppe desired to use less than "lethal force?" No. It's a case where they never would have shot the man in the back in the first place for the crimes he had committed (I hope), so the same rule should apply to a taser. If the cop shoppes keep misusing and abusing them, all it's going to take is one liberal state to ban the use of tasers, and many more states will follow suit. Eventually they will be banned everywhere. It's a shame to lose such an effective weapon simply because they choose to misuse and abuse them.

I dunno. Seems to me like sum poeple hear jus keep re-stating there opinions over and over but its really just the same persons opinion. I bet more think its was ok than dont. Everybodu I know think it was ok.

What's a cop shoppe? Is it the same as a police departmente? Or a sheriffe's office? Maybe it's a store where one goes to purchase fancy cops?

that Steve uses to try to annoy the cops that read/post on here. He actually just makes himself look more ridiculous every time he says it.

quote: "The taser was designed as a tool to assist leo’s in subduing suspects who resist or are otherwise non-compliant."

That's bullsheet and you know it!

http://www.pointshooting.com/taser1.htm

Seattle Police Department (SPD) Special Report on Taser Implementation Year 1

The SPD report shows that the M26 Taser is an effective tool for use in temporarily disabling or stopping a suspect/attacker.

It has the obvious benefit over a firearm, of being effective, but less than lethal.

The M26 Taser - What is it and what's it for?

The M26 taser is intended to provide officers with a force option to help in overcoming a subject's combative intent, physical resistance, and/or assaultive behavior; in disabling or subduing persons bent on harming themselves or others; or in providing self-defense. As with all applications of force, officers using less lethal options are expected to use necessary and reasonable force to effect a lawful purpose.

(This is a proper use of the taser)

Traffic-related Incident #2 - officers attempted to stop a car for reckless driving, when it sped away. While following, officers learned that the car was stolen. The driver stopped abruptly and fled on foot, with officers also in foot pursuit. Once the subject was contained in a fenced area, officers attempted to get him to surrender, without success. Instead the subject turned and ran toward officers refusing to show his hands. One of the officers, who was equipped with a taser, applied it. The subject continued to be uncooperative as officers attempted to handcuff him, so a second cycle of the taser was used. After that, the subject was arrested without further incident.

(Here's another proper use of a taser)

Violent Crime Incident - officers attempted to arrest a subject on a felony rape warrant. During a foot chase, the subject drew a spring-loaded knife from his clothing so violently that it was projected from his hand. During the pursuit, the taser was applied, hitting the subject as he was running. It brought him to the ground, but he still resisted as he was being arrested. After he was subdued, a second knife was recovered.

(This is a quote from the summary)

A review of the first year's taser incidents suggests that the explicit goal to provide first responding officers with alternatives to deadly force when dealing with persons in crisis has been met.

(Ya see it? Alternative to deadly force. No application of deadly force would ever have been acceptable in The Hook story. Neither is the alternative to deadly force, By God!)

quote: "Maybe it’s a store where one goes to purchase fancy cops?"

There's a lot of chiefs and sheriffs that wish such a place existed. They've had to lower standards so much nation just to attract applicants.

quote: "Oh, that's just a term that Steve uses to try to annoy the cops that read/post on here."

Interesting. Cops post and read here? That must explain the influx of insults, namecalling, and general rudeness we have seen so much of lately in The Hook blogs. I had my suspicions, but I think you've pretty much confirmed it now.

There was no excuse to roll a vehicle in the weather yesterday, trooper or not. This happens every year in this area on the first snowstorm. The majority of people in this area have absolutely no idea how to drive in inclement weather, even if its less than 2" of snow. Flat out embarrassing...

An intereting story on the misuse and abuse of tasers, planned in advance of the confrontation:

http://engforum.pravda.ru/archive/index.php/t-252907.html

Fri Jun 19, 5:01 pm ET

VANCOUVER, British Columbia (Reuters) ââ?¬â?? An inquiry into the death of a Polish immigrant at the hands of Canadian police fell into disarray on Friday when the government admitted it failed to disclose potentially damaging evidence.

Inquiry head Thomas Braidwood, a retired judge, called the failed disclosure "appalling" and ordered the inquiry put on hold until September 22, so that witnesses can be recalled. Lawyers had been scheduled to begin closing arguments on Friday.

A tearful government lawyer said she had found a Royal Canadian Mounted Police e-mail that appears to contradict statements made by RCMP officers about the night Robert Dziekanski died at Vancouver International Airport in 2007.

The four officers had testified they never discussed using a Taser stun gun on Dziekanski before confronting him, but the e-mail from the RCMP's internal investigation in 2007 indicated that use of the weapon was planned in advance.

Attorney Helen Roberts said she did not receive a copy of the e-mail until April, which was after the officers had already started to testify, and failed to read the message until this week.

A lawyer for one of the officers said the e-mail was based on wrong information.

Dziekanski, who was in the process of immigrating to Canada, where his mother lives, died after he was repeatedly jolted by a police stun gun, although the exact cause of his death has never been determined.

An amateur video of the incident received international publicity and raised controversy in Canada over police use of the electronic weapons, which are intended to disable victims and to be a safer alternative to firearms.

The controversy prompted the province of British Columbia to order the inquiry.

Police, who were called to a airport following a report of a drunk and disruptive man, initially said Dziekanski was stunned twice and had to be wrestled to the ground.

Evidence presented at the inquiry showed he was actually jolted five times, with some jolts coming after he fell to the ground in pain.

Braidwood is expected to issue reports about the conduct of the police and about the general safety of the weapons made by TASER International.

Does anyone know if I can direct FOP donations to the Shifflet fund?

By the way, taser misuse and abuse has become so common now that thugs are attempting to fraudulently obtain ThorShield. Once this material is sewn inside a jacket or sweater, the taser has become totally ineffective and useless.

And for those of who who don't know... TASER is an acronym for "Thomas A Swift's Electric Rifle."

-----------------------------

I share the truth/opinion presented in this story. In other words, the rookies shall not share this new toy because they are not responsible enough to police themselves in the proper use of a taser.

http://www2.canada.com/ottawacitizen/news/editorials/story.html?id=f4a46...

Taser use by police has come under legitimate scrutiny in Canada in the past year after several high-profile deaths and reports of excessive use.

But amid the controversy, there is a bright spot and it comes from the Ottawa police force. Ottawa police, the first municipal force in Ontario to have Tasers, have largely used them with restraint, according to use-of-force reports dating back eight years.

There are still questions to be answered about Taser use across the country, but Ottawa's record suggests that, when used carefully, they may live up to their billing as a useful law enforcement tool that is an alternative to deadly force.

Ottawa has largely avoided controversy about Tasers and that may be because front-line officers are not issued them and they are used less frequently than by many other forces. Until recently, only the city's tactical unit had the devices. They have now been issued to front-line supervisors as well.

Sure did get quiet in here. :)

Video of taser abuse in a jail lockup.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2007/04/video_stun_gun_/

quote posted about video: "My husband is a cop. I’ve been one, plus spent years as a guard in men’s medium & max prison. We both agree strongly that this (video) and most use of tasers is abusive, immoral and creates more negative social behavior than improvement of public safety."

Wow. Somebody's got a pretty serious Google habit. But I'm sure it took him no time at all to find all that stuff, cut and paste it, link it, edit it down and paraphrase it, and then respond quote for quote to every preceding contrary opinion. No time at all...

I wish I had a taser. They look fun, and relatively harmless.

Reality Check

QUOTE : "Dakotaââ?¬â?? it was on the news. The state police car hit a patch of ice and went off the road. These things happen during inclement weather. End of story."

Thank you for the info , but wait , you stated end of story ? Can you link me to the charges placed on the state trooper for this accident or the ongoing investigation . Sorry you didn't give me the whole story .

TIA

quote: "... the discussion about the couple nearly being run over on Water Street."

Wow! Talk about skating around the main points of a issue. Why not say the couple was almost run over by a cop shoppe car and then arrested when they yelled for the cop to slow the F down?

And then when a man does get run over by a cop shoppe shop car shortly thereafter, the cops report to the city police chief that there were no witnesses to the incident. Left Chief Longo hanging out there looking like an idiot when he repeated there were no witnesses to the incident.

Then we have a cop shoppe car running an 85 mph pursuit through the area where students live and walk all hours of the day and night.

I like to describe things in detail, not simply make remarks like, "the couple nearly being run over on Water Street" :)

Dakota-- it was on the news. The state police car hit a patch of ice and went off the road. These things happen during inclement weather. End of story.

"And with all due respect, who my attorneys are is none of your business. And why would I tell some anonymous person in a blog who is simply known as ââ?¬Å?Reality Check” anyway?"

You'll blather on about yourself and your many lawsuits ad nauseum to all those anonymous readers, but the minute you're asked a direct question by one of them, you run and hide. Very telling, and not one bit surprising.

Gasbag Self Ordained Expert

Did you see any reports of a police cruiser 10-50 ,Afton around 230ish yesterday . haven't seen a report yet but was told somebody smashed one up

Stupid cops! F' em all! Right Steve? Then something about "cop shoppes", nepotism, inept rookies, how you've been screwed by (and then sued) half the cops in town and plan to sue the other half soon, yada yada yada..

The descriptions of the COPS shows on TV included the mention of taser use on suspects. So I decided to watch both shows, 8:00 p.m. and 8:30 p.m. (I usually don't watch the foolishness)

8:00 p.m. show... cop shoppe responds to a home and finds a guy trying to hang himself in a closet with what appeared to be an extension cord. As they cut him down and tried to remove the extension cord from his neck (cord was still tight and choking him) he started resisting the cops help. He actually started saying they were trying to kill him. He obviously had mental issues. After they get the extension cord off, he becomes even more agressive against the cops. Taser deloyed. It was a proper use of a taser, IMHO. This is not a case where you want to shoot and kill somebody that obviosly needs mental help. So the cops deployed a "less than lethal" weapon to gain control of the situation.

Second segment... 8:30 p.m. .... once the COPS TV video camera crew arrives on scene, all we see is a tall male standing face to face with a cop. There's probably 12 feet seperating them. The suspect didn't appear to be argumentative, he was not resisting from all appearances, there didn't appear to be a physical confrontation taking place between the cop and the suspect. The cop deploys the taser, subject falls backwards and head hits concrete. Justified or not? Probably. A victim who doesn't know the suspect says he had already approached her and choked her. Would the suspect do the same thing to the cop? Most likely. The cop used "less than lethal" force to disbale and arrest the suspect for a somewhat serious crime of asaulting a total stranger. Suspect taken away for mental evaluation.

quote: "...and plan to sue the other half soon..."

Really? That's news to me.

My presense here sure is upsetting to you, isn't it? Maybe that's what makes ragging on silly out of control rookie cops so much fun here! :)

But, anyhow, suing the other half soon? Perhaps you are confused, blinded by your anger? I still have one lawsuit pending against a former cop. And my attorney thinks it's the best of all. I do too. So it's going to a jury, there will be no out of court settlement as soon as we get to the courthouse steps in this lawsuit.

For the record though, any cop guilty of a wrongful action against me or any member of my immediate family will be sued for said wrongful action.

And for the record, many of my cop friends think this former cop has skated by a lot of lawsuits that should have been filed against him in the past.

10 posts in a row by the same person? I think this the guy who used to call himself Sick of the Local Rambos. I used to buy his story about being unfairly screwed over by his coworkers, but if I had to put up with someone like that at work, even I might break a few laws to get rid of him.

If you think it was right for the "cop shop" to get rid of you, why do you keep on with all of this wasted energy then?

I have watched this video 3 times and can not believe what I see. It's relevant in this discussion - wrongful actions by rookies. It is one of the worst law enforcement related videos I have ever seen in my life!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIoyJ-LyAaE

A couple of rookies take notes from a defense attorney's file, remove them from the courtroom, and make copies of them. This takes place in open court with video cameras running.

Even the judge doesn't stop court and ask the rookies WTF is going on. I suppose she didn't have clear view of what the rookies were doing.

The entire Criminal Justice System is falling apart at the seams when rookies unlawfully pull stunts like this.

WTF was going through the minds of the rookies?

A detention officer with the Maricopa County Sheriff's Office is caught on tape swiping a document from a defense attorney's files behind her back. Officer Adam Stoddard then hands the document to Deputy Francisco Campillo to make photocopies.

I was just agreeing with you.

Everybody gets mad when I disagree with them.

quote GSOE: "Have you had remarks removed from here? Were they posted with the user name CC?"

Good sir, are you not capable of using your considerable and commendable skills to look at the very page you're commenting on? Or, did you see "comment deleted by the moderator" and find it's meaning too unfathomable for a busy and important man such as yourself to even bother deciphering?

I hadn't written too much other than to say that my and everyone else's eyes were glazed over by the torrent of text you had unleashed right before I stopped by. I wrote and I will write again that you have chosen a very ineffective way of making your point and one which both alienates your potential supporters and makes you seem the fool and a laughingstock. Trust me, no one but you will every read 90% of what you wrote there charming though it no doubt is. But, had you written less, more would have ultimately been read by others. Somehow, making comments like that offends the sensibilities of the staff of C'villes favorite tabloid and they saw fit to remove what I wrote even after you had written your wise and witty commentary on it.

quote again the illustrious GSOE: "Why would anything I have submitted in this thread be removed? What possible reason?"

The current count on this page alone is 93 for the term "gasbag self ordained expert". 3 are in the body of comments. That leaves 89 times someone using that name has posted on this topic alone. 21 of them came between 8:44 am on Dec 4 and 12:48 am Dec.5. Of those, about 15 of come in a row with only one other post by someone else in the middle. A significant amount of that is, like most everything else you write, is about you the person posting under that name more than this or any other topic you choose to hijack for your own ends.

I respectfully submit that your eloquent writing, like any other good thing ought to be taken in moderation. If a moderator is to impose moderation,it's obvious that the place to start is to eliminating the unnecessary. Good judgement would suggest editing away the bulk of what you've written, starting with where you stray from the matter at hand and pursue your own agenda. The little that's left will more than satisfy those of us with modest needs.

Your humble and respectful correspondent CC.

quote: "ââ?¬Å?Six (false) criminal charges over the last decade and the judges believed me over ALL the cops in ALL the cases? Keep on dreaming. Just didn’t happen in this lifetime. :)”

VS

ââ?¬Å?The chip on my shoulder comes from being subjected to a long series of false arrests for the last decade. 7 false arrests between 1997 and 2005.”

Hawes Spencer, with my permission, please feel free to review my IP address, and confirm or deny if I have posted”Š.using any other name than Gasbad Self Ordained Expert. ”

VS

at least I use the same user name 98% of the time unlike the rest of the anonymous cowards do here.

Hmmmmm, come on now”Š..make up your mind :)

I'm Back, I have used no name in this particular thread other than Gasbag Self Ordained Expert. None. Zilch. Prior to being called Gasbag Self Ordained Expert by another poster and deciding to use it as a user name, I used another user name.

This is why I say 98% of the time "here", "here" meaning as on The Hook threads, plural.

I do stand corrected. The first false arrest was in 1997. I left the city in 1996. I often get those dates confused when typing fast. No deception intended on my behalf.

Between March of 1997 and February of 2005, there have been 6 false arrests. Only two ever made it as far as an actual trial in a courtroom. Lawsuits filed in all 6 though of course.

You can quote me on all of these facts now if I ever state otherwise in the future.

Could be cataracts.

I wonder if a taser applied directly to the eyeball would help at all? If you find an experienced veteran cop, he/she might be able to place one prong into each eyeball. :)

And speaking of cops, is a female cop actually a copette?

Geez. That sounds like a threat. Moderator, can we get a ruling here?

Hawes, are you actually in support of a big brother approach to the news? The Hook regularly makes a big deal of it's willingness to stand up to threats of lawsuits from Halsey Minor, Tommy Garrett, and who knows who else, but won't allow an open forum that allows others make perfectly reasonable comments without having them erased by a newly imposed moderator?

Anyway, wouldn't "moderation" if it were at all sensibly applied have wiped virtually everything Gasbag has written on this page? Has Gasbag been hurling threats of lawsuits your way? If so, then why aren't you boasting about your refusal to give in?

Do you just cut and paste this same story over and over again?? Get a life dude. Quit hijacking every damn story that remotely involves the police. Start your own blog moron.

Watch out My God!!!, big bro's watching it seems.

Read this story and "Monday morning quarterback" these rookies. I'm SURE you can find something that they did wrong in rescuing these babies from a burning building.

quote: "....won’t allow an open forum that allows others make perfectly reasonable comments without having them erased by a newly imposed moderator?

Have you had remarks removed from here? Were they posted with the user name CC?

Anyway, wouldn’t ââ?¬Å?moderation” if it were at all sensibly applied have wiped virtually everything Gasbag has written on this page?

Why would anything I have submitted in this thread be removed? What possible reason?

Has Gasbag been hurling threats of lawsuits your way? If so, then why aren’t you boasting about your refusal to give in?

What in the Wide World of Blogs are you talking about? Why would I sue The Hook? I guess you are asking because you realize there's been pretty much libel posted here about me by several posters. But when I get ready, I won't be suing The Hook. You subpoena records, identify the poster, and go after them, not the The Hook. And yes, I have sued 2 people for posting lies and false rumors about me on the Internet, and I prevailed in both of those lawsuits. Judgements were issued by the court.

The Hook has no control over anybody coming in here and saying they saw you having sex with a goat in your back yard last week. You don't sue The Hook. As a matter of fact, you would be wise to be real kind to The Hook so they will cooperate in identifying the posters IP and in preserving the libel as posted.

Sue The Hook? That's hilarious.

quote: "...and ââ?¬Å?Monday morning quarterback” these rookies..."

OK.

If they had a lick of sense they would get four people holding the four corners of a blanket for the kids to land in.

Hhhmmmm.... looking back, it seems as if my tale at the Magistrate's Office possibly set CC off? If so, what is it about the tale that set you off? Did you know one of the parties involved?

Come to think of it, I guess I am lucky they didn't tase me when I said "It's Not Over Yet!" :)

My bad. I guess you meant some other "experienced veteran" cop could taser me in the eyeballs.

Perfect example of why it's a good idea to post anonymously here. Apparently, if anyone dares deny you the last word, it could get downright unhealthy for them!

Thanks for the yarn though. No matter how irrelevent it is, you seem to find a way to retell it about every other week here.

Yes, I said an "experienced veteran cop."

I didn't say an "experienced ex cop". :)

I was wondering how on earth you saw the joke as a threat. But as evidenced by the other tale I told you, stranger things have happened. :)

Ah... Plausible deniability. Gotcha (wink wink). Non-apology apology accepted then.

So you're suing me too?

Some of you guys and girls have no sense of humor whatsoever.

quote: "...if I had to put up with someone like that at work, even I might break a few laws to get rid of him."

Me too. :)

CC

The irony !

Dakota

Ironic that irony, isn't she?

"And you’re just as guilty as anybody else when you claim above that I have sued half the cops in town, and have plans to sue the other half soon. That my friend is liable [sic]."

Are you out of your freaking mind??!! You have bragged here innumerable times about suing God knows how many cops and having litigation pending against others. Just try to get a judge to agree with you that what I said was anything other than a bit of exageration. You'd get laughed out of court and the judge would probably call you crazy. (But then I suppose you'd sue for slander!) Priceless!

Since we're on the topic, what you said about tasering an earlier poster's eyeballs was certainly more threatening than what I said was libelous. Despite your backtracking, it read like a thinly veiled threat to me. So you'd better watch your own a$$ there chief!

And since your modus operandi for staying "on topic" is to simply litter this thread with googled accounts of cops misbehaving, I thought I'd link one of a rookie acting admirably:

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_13690879?source=rss

You will probably now whine that the rookie cop used excessive force to prevent the kid from choking.

Your turn...

It's L-I-B-E-L, not "lible."

I'm not going to engage in a pissing match with you, but over the past few years you have routinely accused people who disagreed with your opinions of being cops, or cop's girlfriends and/or wives. You routinely, through innuendo and implication, have accused various nameless people of various general crimes and/or ethical violations. You claim that many people-- judges and cops, for instance-- agree with you, but they remain nameless as well. You contradict yourself, and you do it ad nauseum in every single thread that you can possibly jack for your personal grudge match, regardless of how tenuous the connection.

Mr Shifflett, people respond badly to you because you are acting like a troll on the Hook's forums. You are frequently passive-aggressive, rude, and incredibly condescending to your fellow posters. People ask you to tone it down, but you can't take the hint because you're self-absorbed. I've heard quite a few comments from people who say they no longer read stories and discussions if they see you're posting on them because they know it's going to degenerate into an endless stream of your boastful claims and accusations that anyone that disagrees with you is either an idiot or a cop. Unfortunately, any encouragement you've received from the Hook staff because they've used you as an occasional story source has gone entirely to your head. Your tales of being fired, your many lawsuits, and claims of harassment, probably constituted a compelling and sympathetic story at one time. Unfortunately though, due to your own actions on this board and others, both you and your tales of woe have long since degenerated into merely being the sad butt of jokes in the community. You ceased providing a public service with your message, because the messenger turned into a ridiculous clown. As an unintended consequence, you've inadvertently created sympathy for the very cops you've been attempting to vilify. Was that your intention?

Waldo wouldn't release IP addresses to Tommy Garrett. I have faith that Hawes Spencer has the journalistic integrity to act similarly. If the Hook ever did release people's IP addresses in order to feed a frivolous lawsuit of yours, they'd lose all credibility in the community. End of story.

It’s L-I-B-E-L, not ââ?¬Å?lible.”

Yes, I make this mistake often.

Anyhow, I'm sorry I got you so worked up this morning.

And trust me, having filed two lawsuits myself for libel in an Internet forums, I know much more about tracking people down and identifying them than you do. I also know much more about under what cirumstances a person or business HAS to release records. Surely you don't actually believe that one can post libelous remarks about somebody day in and day out with immunity? And surely you don't believe there are no civil remediess to identify the person making such remarks? If any of this was true, I could follow you around the Internet and say you are a three time convicted sex offender. (The circumstances in the Waldo case were quite different.)

Another not so well known secret... even in the case of a truth being posted, the truth of the statements has been no justification for the publication of said truth and the insulting manner in which they have been presented to the public. (This should sound familiar, eh?)

Sometimes, you guys and girls make me laug out loud. And this was one of those times.

In reference to the two lawsuits I did file concerning lible on the Internet about me, I prevailed in both lawsuits. Judgements were obtained in both lawsuits. One party didn't even contest their behavior. The person realized they had placed the noose around their own neck after wrongly assuming they could never be identified. The other party did contest their behavior for a while. But that party also threw their hands up later knowing they had been identified through court subpoenas and the acquisition of their IP addresses. And they were absolutely flabbergasted when they discovered I was also granted access to a forum's e-mail in which they were discussing me back and forth and laughing about posting the libel, they thought nobody could touch them. They sadly discovered that there is no hiding behind an annonymous user name. They also discovered they did not have "freedom of speech" in Internet forums.

Facts huh?

"Another not so well known secret”Š even in the case of a truth being posted, the truth of the statements has been no justification for the publication of said truth and the insulting manner in which they have been presented to the public. (This should sound familiar, eh?)"

Wikipedia? Really? Again? And from the subsection on ancient Roman jurisprudence no less!

Did you bother to read further about defenses against charges of libel? Specifically...
#1 "Fair comment on a matter of public interest, arguments made with an honest belief in their soundness on a matter of public interest... are defendable against a defamation claim..."

In your case, your constant rants against the law enforcement community, office-seekers, etc... make pointing out the particular ax that you are grinding relevent to the conversation. In other words, posting the fact that you got fired from the Sheriff's office is relevent because it helps explain your MANY negative posts on the topic.

#2 "Claimant is incapable of further defamationââ?¬â??e.g., the claimant's position in the community is so poor that defamation could not do further damage to the plaintiff..."
"Essentially, the defense is that the person had such a bad reputation before the libel, that no further damage could possibly have been caused by the making of the statement."

I'd say you fall into that category too. So many people know about you having been fired from the Sheriff's office that pointing it out cannot possibly constitute an injury.

And now, more "stupid" rookie cops...
http://www.chicagodefender.com/article-2711-rookie-cop-shot.html
These cops got shot and did not shoot anybody. I am sure you can educate us all on what they did wrong...

While purusing a small forum just now, I came across an interesting remark. The remark is made by a cop up in Northern Virginia. What the cop probably doesn't realize is that his statement also most certainly applies to the teenagers sitting at home right now that will become cops in the next decade. IMHO, the remark reinforces what I have been saying all along about the current rookies who grew up playing violent video games.

quote: "Things will become more and more like the games our youth are playing, bloody and violent, with no regard for human life."

http://www.crownvic.us/forum/showpost.php?p=198890&postcount=26

quote: "...the claimant’s position in the community is so poor that defamation could not do further damage to the plaintiff..."/i>

This is almost a valid argument. The media sure did drag my name through the mud with every cop shoppe press release they placed faith in. Except for the fact that I have a spotless criminal and traffic record. I haven't even had something as simple as a parking ticket in my entire life. I'll match my record with anybody in the entire state of Virginia. Most everybody over the age of 35 to 40 has at least one traffic conviction, or at least one parking ticket. :)

Now combine this with the fact that all of the false arrests have been expunged from my record. They are not even suppose to be discussed or disclosed. Before somebody goes into a discussion about Sally Jones being arrested twice for shoplifting, and calling her out by her proper legal name, they better make sure the records were not expunged.

This is actually a point that will be heard in the last remaining lawsuit I have against one former cop. He released information about a former arrest that he dayum well knows was expunged. He denies knowing the record was expunged. I'll let you know how this turns out and how the jury rules.

quote: "So many people know about you having been fired from the Sheriff’s office that pointing it out cannot possibly constitute an injury."

Yeah, just like their knowing about my fabricating a story about being ambushed in uniform by some young black guy who allegedly shot me. Falsely connecting my name to that incident couldn't possibly have caused any damages to my reputation or character. Even though the mention of it was tossed out there with malice and forethought to make me look bad.

This incident actually reflects upon what I have been saying for a long time too - namely, crooked lying cops. The Albemarle cop shoppe sent everybody they had to the area and immediately started stopping and detaining every black male witin sight. Innocent people being stopped and detained for a crime that had never taken place, as reported to them by a cop of all people.

Is it any wonder why people now dislike cops and no longer trust them? Again, I say the entire profession is dragged down by the few bad apples out there.

Put... the... keyboard.... down... and.... walk... away.... slowly....

Review the "use of force" chart on this page.

http://www.policetest.info/FORCE_CONTINUUM_POLICE_USE_OF_FORCE.htm

10-year-old kids are being tased, which is one step down from deadly force.

Mr Shifflett, aside from a predictable burst of bragging, you managed to avoid addressing a single point I made in my post. You have no defense, and know that I'm right.

Your reputation on this site as an anti-police obsessive and troll was created solely by yourself. It's highly likely that far more people in the community have a negative opinion of you for your Gasbag/Sick/Demopublican antics than ever heard or read anything either false or true reported about you in the media under your real name. You've created this bad impression via your chronic diarrheal posting, and can't blame it on anyone else. Perhaps you should consider suing one of your many aliases for making you look so bad.

It's simple. Keep threatening your fellow posters with lawsuits, and they'll keep laughing at you. Who's your attorney, by the way, or is that another secret?

WTF are you talking about? I haven't threatened anybody with a lawsuit (except perhaps rookie cops who may violate my rights again, falsely arrest me again, or intentionally and willfully conspire against me in the future again). We were discussing why The Hook has seen fit to moderate these blogs all of a sudden now. I have simply said it's most likely because of all the libel, insults, namecalling, and general disruption around here lately. And I went further to say that I feel this is the reason because libelous remarks have repeatedly been posted about me.

When and if I do get ready to do anything, it will come as a surprise. It won't come as a threat beforehand.

And with all due respect, who my attorneys are is none of your business. And why would I tell some anonymous person in a blog who is simply known as "Reality Check" anyway?

"Just like I told CC, I imagine The Hook is fed up with people disrupting these threads day in and day out."

Steve, you are by far the biggest disrupter of threads I've encountered anywhere in any of my years of surfing the internet and participating in discussion forums. I used to read what you had to say with some interest. You first appeared on my radar with the discussion about the couple nearly being run over on Water Street. You had something interesting and somewhat useful to add to that conversation and at that point I hadn't read your endlessly repeated copy and paste rants. You ceased to be interesting for the most part a long time ago and I'd like nothing more than for you to go away.

Like I've said before, I'm not a cop, I don't think i've ever even met any local law enforcement personnel who weren't stopping me for a traffic violation, and I generally don't care for the police or anything having to do with local government. You and you alone are responsible for my transition from sympathetic reader who agreed you might have been wronged to someone who would like to see you banned from participating in an local internet forum.

You are a pest and a troll. As Reality Check wrote and as I mentioned on another topic which you hijacked with your lunacy, you have given many people in the community who would never even have know you existed, like me for example, a negative opinion of you. If the "rookie" police had a full time crew working at nothing but making you look like a fool, they couldn't have done a better job of it than you have done yourself.

quote Steve: "If you have taken notice, people single me out and specifically want to comment on my opinions. "

Clearly you refuse to take notice, people single you out to ask you to go away. You are actually pretty unique in that here, and yet your deluded response is that you have your fans to respond to.

quote: "...Clearly you refuse to take notice, people single you out to ask you to go away. You are actually pretty unique in that here..."

We can change this uniqueness right now.

I wish you, Reality Check and Dancin Smurf would go away. :)

quote: "Does anyone know if I can direct FOP donations to the Shifflet fund?"

What kind of silly question is that?

quote: "There was no excuse to roll a vehicle in the weather yesterday..."

I agree Timmy. But Afton Mountain is an entirely different monstor. I used to drive that mountain every day taking mental patients to Western State Hospital and kids to the Juvenile Detention Center... in sun, rain, snow and ice. Whatever the weather was, I was right in the middle of it.

And the problem isn't so much the weather. You can be driving along at 40 mph in the ice, snow and fog when you come across some moron in the left lane who's doing 10 mph. This is also what causes the multi-car chain reaction crashes on this mountain.

Talk about strange timing. I just got a phone call, caller ID was "The Police Protect". They were soliciting donations for the FOP.

News flash -- If you want to donate money to the FOP, do so directly please.

When you donate to the phone call solicitors, they keep about 95% of what you donate. Very litte of your donation actually goes to the FOP!!!

More intentional misuse of the taser...

http://www.break.com/index/big_boy_gets_tazered.html

After the first application of the taserby cop 3, the subject goes down. The subject is cooperating with cop 1 and cop 2 now, and cop 1 tells cop 3 to tase him again. While they are handcuffing the man, cop 1 tells cop 3 to tase him a third time is given.

Ya see, the biggest problem here is the subject can't roll over as fast as the cops think he should. But this is because he HAS NOT recovered from the first tasing and regained control of his motor functions.

It's just one big video game out here, being acted out in real life. Was this a proper application of the taser? YES! Until the cops insisted on repeatedly tasing him for no reason.

Hell yeah! Video games are awesome! Zap him again!

But Dennis, most of them forget they are on video themselves. :)

I like it when they lie. And then a video tape surfaces all of a sudden. Like in the Rodney King case. "Duh, guess we better change our tale real quick, you suppose? "

I thought this thread had finally died. Thank God it was revived!

Come to think of it, the Rodney King video was one of the first that put cops on notice that they would be videotaped and it would be used against them. And each year we see more wrongful action cop shoppe videos than the previous year. Just when we think we have seen the worse, along comes one that tops it.

I'm not sure which local cop shoppe video is the funniest this past year. The one with a cop shoppe car running over a man in a wheelchair. Or a small army of cops tasing a handcuffed drunk in a foot race they all were losing. At least they didn't plow him down with a 4,000 car like the troopers in South Carolina are doing. And then laughing about it on video. One big video game out here I tell ya!!

Notice I didn't include the 85 mph pursuit video through the UVA area where students live and walk 24 hours a day. There's nothing humorous about it. It's just plain insane. And it has been condoned by the police chief, so you will see more. The rookies have a free ticket to drive crazy on city streets from now on. It can always be justified with a quick blurp of twisted words when the chief has to.

ps - Sorry I was missing in action last night. But for laugh and giggles, I decided to hook one of my laptops up to a new 55" LED LCD TV I bought last week. I wanted to watch some of the taser videos on YouTube on a big screen. The large 55" screen made so many of them so life like that I was scared the cops could hear me laughing at them during the wrongful executions of the taser in some of them. :)

I was having so much fun I decided against posting the links here each time I came across a wrongful application. Whether I post one link or a hundred links, I think reasonably intelligent people can all agree that the taser is being misused and abused far more often than legitimate applications.

Told ya.

Dude. You must have some sort of psychological disorder that compells you to have the last word. You really ought to seek help.

This IS my last word on the subject. See if you can resist posting below. Since there cannot possibly be anything left to add that you have not already said, the only reason for you to post again is to satisfy your "last word" compulsion. I urge you to try and resist. Try, for everyone's sake (including your own). I'm pretty sure you won't be able to because that would mean someone else ending a thread besides you. But if you try, maybe, just maybe, we can beat this thing - together.

And for the record, reasonably intelligent people can disagree on just about anything - no matter how many links you post.

At the risk of contributing to his psychosis, I'd like to point out that the last example Gasbag provided of taser use was reasonable given the info that the police had at hand. It was unfortunate that the deaf man was zapped, but the police acted according to the rules that Gasbag has previously handed down from on high.

So it appears that we've gone from "no tasers for bad cops" to "no tasers, period." Guess those dangerous rookies can go back to drawing their guns in those situations instead of drawing their tasers.

(That ought to keep Gasbag going for awhile.) ;)

To whom it may concern,

Dances With Smurfs, Charlie, The Gimp, Holy Crap!, Shiftless Steve, Hey Douchebag, Sick of the Local Gasbag, Bill2, Local, Not a Cop Shopper, Bottom Line, Cville Dem, Sick of the Local Deputy Sleepy, Rowdy Roddy Piper, Speechless, and now "Dennis" are all the same sock puppet. And he/she/it shall have the last word because I've turned off the comment function.

--moderator, aka Hawes Spencer