If they took CTS to the brawl, how'd they return?

news-cts-bus-ridgestreetA CTS bus downtown. PHOTO BY HAWES SPENCER

Perhaps the most fascinating part of the whole brawl-at-the-mall that caused Charlottesville Fashion Square to shut down for an hour on Friday night, March 5, is the statement released by Simon Malls. The release declares that unsupervised juveniles–- said to number around 100 by NBC29–- arrived via public transportation. The Newsplex doesn't give a total for the crowd, but Charlottesville Transit Service buses appear to hold a little under 50 people.

Albemarle County Police Corporal Ken Richardson says that preliminary reports suggest total involvement of 30 to 50 people, none of whom have yet been detained.

Richardson says that the only possible weapon, and people are not sure it's connected to the incident, is an ordinary kitchen knife found in a trash can near the scene of the brawl. One person was checked by medical personnel, but nobody, according to Richardson, was transported for medical treatment. As for the public transportation allegation, he says that investigators will investigate.

"We have no knowledge of how they got to the Mall," says Richardson, noting that the investigation is being transferred to Sergeant Linda Jenkins, who oversees the Police's school resource officers.

"On Friday night," says CTS chief Bill Watterson, "some youths rode our bus to the Mall. I have no idea if they were involved."

The #5 and 7 buses go to Fashion Square, and Friday and Saturday evening ridership is usually greater than on weekdays, says Watterson.

CTS reports no recent incidents of gangs of troublesome youths–- or any other age group. Says Watterson, "There has not been anything out of the ordinary with riders."

–last updated 3:17pm, March 9

99 comments

Pro-civ: My comment that was deleted at 10:26am was regarding poverty and ignorance, topics that were being discussed. I was only offering an alternative to the "better schools" or "tough on crime" argument. It had nothing to do with Nazism or Hitler. Margaret Sanger rejected Nazism in her lifetime. She just wanted to stop blacks from breeding, and spread sensible information about birth control. What's so wrong about that? I mean, Margaret Sanger is a hero, no? Isn't that why her name's on awards and her organizations are beloved by all?

Modern day West Side Story: they used the internet to plan this mall/brawl.

@DeeMan, if I were to beleive you, then the next time I see you will think the same of you. That's the way stereotyping works.

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"Because everyone involved in the riot is on welfare, right?" - Dee Minus Man

I don't know, were they? I've seen the pictures, read the stories, talked to someone that was there,..it sure seems that way. I'll bet the parents of a good majority of the kids there Friday night receive some sort of government 'assistance'. Now I’m not saying that because you are an African American, you are on welfare (I am, and aren’t). Nor am I saying white folk are all rich law-abiding citizens. My thought process involves receiving data from the outside world, whether it’s first person or from assorted media outlets, before I come to a conclusion. Sorry, but I can’t help but conclude that a high percentage of the trouble in this area is caused by the offspring of people that get government assistance. Don’t just tell me I’m full of crap and a backwards racist,”Š prove me wrong. Give me some statistical proof. I can easily find some that backs me up.

Does it offend to say that lots of St. Anne's students are brought up to be smug, self-centered snots who will go on to accumulate conspicuous wealth and status without ever wondering what it would be like to have struggled without their birth-conferred advantages? We know that it's true in enough cases to generalize.

Children whose parents, irrespective of race, aren't a moral presence in their lives to the extent that Lil Wayne is will be running amok,under-achieving, and making babies. Not always but enough to generalize and not be too far off.

Personally I'd want to see firm law enforcement brought to bear on this kind of outbreak, but I'd also like to see Muffy dragged out of the Land Rover and made to support a family with a service job. It doesn't take a lot of insight to see why kids end up acting out like they do; or comment posters of either extreme either.

Moral decay is just as evident in indifference and insularity as it is in mob behavior. Are we about the Golden Rule or a Darwinistic struggle for supremacy?

I love how this is just now making news, when these types of brawls have been happening FOR YEARS at Fashion Square. I used to manage a store there, and every other weekend a fight would break out, and we'd have to close the doors of the store with the costumers inside until the rent-a-cop security officers pretended to do something about it.

This is why malls in less-than-savory neighborhoods institute an 18-and-over curfew for mall-goers after 8pm. (They check IDs as you enter.) I'd hate to see that happen at FS, but at this rate, it's only a matter of time before something more serious happens.

"I see alot of blame on the parents but how can yall say that the parents arent doing their parenting duties. Kids have a mind of their own and do what they choose.....you can’tcontrol everything your kids does"
No, really? Until they're 18, YOU are certainly responsible for their behavior and for where they are. I have a teenager and I know where she is pretty much all of the time. She has a job, manners, knows right from wrong, etc. If she, god forbid, get’s bad grades, skips school, attends a riot at the Mall, you can rest assured she will be punished. She knows that, and acts accordingly. I raised her, not the school administrator, her teachers or her peers. I can guarantee you that if she got ââ?¬Ë?bored’, her first thought would NOT be to cause trouble for attention.
I have a thought. Base the amount of the welfare check (subsidy, whatever) not on how many kids you have, but on the behavior of those kids. Allison gets a ââ?¬Ë?D’ in math, your check is $30 less. Tyrone gets arrested for being in a gang related activity at the mall, your check next month is $250 less. Hell, I’d even be willing to give them more money (after all, as a tax payer, it is my money to give) if their kids get good grades in school. Jeffrey gets all ââ?¬Ë?A’s on his report card, you get a $100 bonus next month. Maybe some folks need an incentive.

If I labeled anything a "School For Black Kids" I would probably be labeled a racist. You sound like a racist because you label "Western Albemarle School For White Kids" when it is not a school for white kids, but a school for human beings.

It's Actually Western Albemarle High School; btw

i don't understand the assumption that the brawlers in question were poor?

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Quote:" Gail, the police cannot be assigned to private property. They must be employed as private security on their hours off."

In the city, one officer is assigned to Barracks Road Shopping Center as his normal beat, and so far as I know, that is private property.

I am sure the parents were perfect and that is was "the other kids" that started it.

Skip the middle man....

Close the Schools and build more jail cells......

Bob has cracked tbe case. The priveleged students of STAB, Covenant, Western Albemarle School For White Kids, etc would never be involved in something like this because money has bought them decision making skills

I dont get it either , guess they assume the "rich kids" wouldnt do anything like this but they steady talking about "public housing" like we dont know who you're targeting "NAME". the white kids are the ones we hear about who are drunk driving every weekend wrecking and killing ppl. dont matter if you black or white, kids are kids and do stupid things dont just target one race like most of you are doing

Apparently at least one of the unsupervised juveniles was from Albemarle High according to the Newsplex account above:

"teenager with the gun was wearing a blue hoodie."

"After the fight we kind of came back in, and a guy with a gun came in and he was standing five feet from me, and he was like 'were you the ones who jumped my cousin,' and he ran around the mall with a gun." Albemarle County High School student Keanan Brown says he wasn't afraid. "I didn't think he was going to start shooting everybody."

Not unless it has changed recently. That was his assigned beat. He was assigned to Barracks Road Shopping Center.

Garrett Square pays the city an annual fee for police security after their shifts. It is paid out in overtime I believe. CSO's did not carry guns and the residents said some of them were a part of the problem. I don't think they've been in existence since Longo arrived. I think it's all a question of liability and the service areas didn't want to pay for it. At Blue Ridge Commons, the police sit in cars on the street, not in the parking lot.

@Pro-cvilization:

***"the Nazis copying Virginia’s eugenics law and using it to justify the killing of children and adults by their doctors"***

Where's the evidence that the Nazi's were copying from Virginia?

Just curious.

But That would be a rather heinous thing for the state of Virginia to have to live down - Virginia was the model for the Nazi Eugenics program.

Still.. I'm not buying it.

Prove it.

Kids being kids. Let it go.

you mean to tell me that out of all those video camera in the mall, none of them caught a image of any of this? the guy with the gun, the knife, anything? well, i know the money i spend at the mall is going to great causes.

there is no law about a cop going to barracks road and walking around it. be happy they are patrolling it. Or somethings gonna happen and youll wish there was a cop patrolling it. in lakeland fl. there is a whole special force police team that is solely responsible for patrolling the malls. they have police vehicles with them and they are on duty. the same with short pump town center. i personally think. that you all, (along with the management and owners of the cville malls) need to get your head out of your arse, and be happy that there are police. what would you do if someone came up to you, hit you, stole your $500 you just got out of the ATM and started to run away but got caught by a cop 15feet away would you like to get your money back or not?

Just Bob. is making a critical error. He is apparently ignoring the text "The release declares that unsupervised juveniles� said to number around 100 by NBC29� arrived via public transportation."

Instead he assumes that this piece of information is a mistake invented by the media.

No, Bob, the media is simply reporting the statement released by the mall. If anyone is inventing this it is the mall.

Instead of fighting at the mall you hear about those priveleged kids getting into car accidents or killing people because they are drunk behind the wheel. Does not matter where you live wether in a subsidized housing or glenmore there's problems with kids all over so don't target one without the other

What's your point by attempting to play the Race Card?

"Bob has cracked tbe case. The priveleged students of STAB, Covenant, Western Albemarle School For White Kids, etc would never be involved in something like this because money has bought them decision making skills."

@cville Eye

**"How does this apply to the situation at hand?"**

It applies to the situation at hand because of the comment made by "Voted Wrong in 2008"

Pertinent portion of that comment:

***"What are kids from my community being offered, nothing."***

My point... why is it anyone's responsibility for the kids in **"anyone's community"** other than the individual parent?

This person is making an attempt at a "class inequity" argument. Which I think is bogus.

And thus my response:

"I didn’t decide to have children I couldn’t afford and/or didn’t want. I didn’t decide to make those children the responsibility of government to raise."

Which I think is a fair response.

Does that clarify things for you?

It seems you are implying that the kids involved in this have parents who have children that they can't afford and/or didn't want. Also it seems you're trying to say that they are on welfare. True?

I don't think I implied that. I definitely don't understand how you get "on welfare" from that.

I do think "Voted wrong in 2008" suggested "the children they can't afford" with this comment:

***"what are kids from my community being offered, nothing. That’s why they head to the mall and cause trouble."***

If the parents could afford the children- then why is "social equity" an issue at all?

"I didn't decide to have children I couldn't afford and/or didn't want. I didn't decide to make those children the responsibility of government to raise." How does this apply to the situation at hand?

I don't think they had arrest powers, but if I am not mistaken, they had the authority to detain until a sworn officer could get there. I also think they could write a summons for various infractions.

No, not quite a moot point. If the city is allowing the kids to ride the bus es for free and the kids are abusing the privilege, the that perk can be taken away. Thank God it wasn't as bad as the fans invading the soccer field.

There used to be a cop assigned assigned to Barracks Road Shopping Center. I think that went by the wayside though. Probably because they were patrolling private property on the taxpayer's dime. But of course the shopping center is a taxpayer too if I use that argument.

Barnes & Noble has a cop each evening, but it's cops working their off duty hours.

quote: Cville Eye

"That is not the case as it has been explained to neighborhoods in the city for well over 10 years. Otherwise, the city would have assigned a police office to Garrett Square, Blue Ridge Commons and Hardy Drive. True, there as been police substations at Hardy Drive, Walker Square, and the Ix property and other places but they are not ââ?¬Å?assigned” to speciaically patrol those private properties, but rather the surrouning public areas"

I am pretty sure there were CSO's assigned to those areas you mention. Has that changed, too?

"How about allocating enough law enforcement at the mall on weekends so these young people can face arrest? How about security cameras where folks get off the bus to help with identifying the brawlers? How about monitoring the web sites where these ââ?¬Å?parties” are being planned (see front page of todays DP)? How about banning kids from the mall if convicted?"

How about treating the cause instead of treating the problem? How about not imitating the British whose crime solutions are obviously terrible as their crime continues to grow? How about not overreacting and spending millions to implement insane measures in one place when fights could start anywhere?

Put it together with the fight club viciousness on youtube last year (with mommas and young children cheering them on), the gunshots on Hardy and Page last night (and the same going on around other taxpayer-subsidized projects in town on a regular basis), the white shirted jacka**es clubbing people last summer, and the plague of muggings downtown, and you've got evidence of a very serious problem in this town - plus a climate of fear and hate. Unacceptable.

abc - i think it's cause our friend boo! took a bong rip and started thinking about things a little too much.

calm down there big fella! (i'm assuming you're high because I can't imagine a totally lucid mind could conjur the possibily of ANY government regulating let alone licensing reproduction)

I have a much shorter and more educated guess as to why problems such as the one stated in the above article are occuring at a record breaking pace: American pop culture.

Now, we could go on and on about what I just said but if you couldn't tell already, I'm a stoner. I got better things to do. I don't feel like it bra

Moderator, why are you deleting my comments? A great woman shouldn't have her comments deleted.

i agree put it in the air...lol

whats the matter; does the truth hurt?

I like mertilator:

"This is what happens when sissies and bureaucrats and gargantuan early menopausing women get ahold of the school system"

Then he tells someone else:

"Grow up."

I think I get it mertilator. It's the sissies, bureaucrats, gargantuan women and administrators' fault that these kids started brawling at the mall. Anyone that disagrees needs to grow up.

I'm so grateful to hear your well-reasoned opinions!

Here's my question though. Re: "they’d stop pushing through the kids with issues"

How does the academic records of these kids relate to their actions at the mall? School was out of session, wasn't it? Maybe some of these kids have been held back? I mean, I haven't read anywhere that these kids have been "pushed through" the high schools.

But I'm sure the problem is that I'm misunderstanding your articulate and astute position. Not that you don't make any sense.

Please explain to all of us how their academic records or experiences relate to their behavior at the mall and how the parenting they receive at home is irrelevant. I can only hope that once I hear your logic I'll have the maturity ("grow up.") to see your point.

re:"Could you imagine what would happen if a person of any different color were to have said such a thing? "

I would imagine a brawl would break out! Oh wait that's exactly what happened. Looks like your attempt at race-baiting is an epic failure.

"Quit blaming the wrong people and start holding their parents and any adults involved accountable for their actions."

Grow up. If the pencil neck administrators would allow active discipline instead of the passive aggressive punishment of suspension, which only further serves to alienate the kid and if he's a trouble case means he only gets to skip going to school, and they'd stop pushing through the kids with issues by reducing school requirements or shuffling papers, you'd have a lot less of this. But because they're Dr. Spock reading sissies they have no will to go through with proper means of reforming kids, and hire and promote "teachers" who use and employ the same methodology and thus can hardly be looked at as "authority" figures, the kids simply don't care.

As an educated African-American, even I am offended by Just Bob's comments. C'mon Bob, let's use our brain cells. That will allow us to focus on the problem; what are kids from my community being offered, nothing. That's why they head to the mall and cause trouble. Denying the truth won't solve the problem, it is people like you that have been burying us since LBJ.

If they want to fight. I say let them them fight one on one... in a boxing ring. It's easy to pretend you're tough when you're part of a gang, but something else to take on someone in a fair fight.

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The points are it was a brawl, at least one person had a gun and one had a knife. What on earth was all this about? A friend saw a very large group of approximately 30 or more black teenagers walking together in the mall shouting things at random people. Then shortly afterward they saw a black male teenager running and who was yelling "Those nigers are fighting." My friend didn't see any white, yellow, pink or purple people involved, only black. Why do black people call each other such names? Could you imagine what would happen if a person of any different color were to have said such a thing? It really isn't alright for anyone to call one another such a thing. Why the double standard? There are so many churches in this area, maybe they can help out by perhaps giving these kids somewhere to turn to if they don't have anyone at home.

The Hook and every one reporting on this is making one big error. They are assuming that these kids took the CTS from the Public Housing/Getto parts of "in the city" Charlottesville out to the County of Albemarle Fashion Mall. That supposition would be incorrect.

Look around- within walking distance there are a number of "poverty apartments".

By which I mean- no they are not officially "public housing" but they are "Subsidized housing". In some states referred to as "Section 8" housing- meaning the resident pays what they can based on their income and the government (HUD) picks up the tab for the rest.

This happens because In Albemarle County most of the ââ?¬Å?poverty” apartments are within walking distance to ââ?¬Å?The fashion mall.”

1. Rio Hill Drive (Poverty apartments- which the BOS wants to connect via moped path to the Woodbrook neighborhood).

2. Any of the Apartments on Commonwealth Drive (Trophy Chase, etc).

3. The ââ?¬Å?Parkside” apartments on Whitewood Road.

Have you ever noticed the huge amount of Pedestrians along the 29 corridor (and side streets) in that area? Or those Pedstrians hit crossing Rio Road at the Mall? They're on foot because they live in the area and can't afford a car- and its easier to walk when you don't have a car.

Albemarle County's Getto is within easy walking distance to the Fashion Mall.

That is why this is happening.

The Hook often manages to pick up the cogent part of the story, and I agree, how did they all get there ? Will this brawl- initiate a call, by Fashion Square management, to institute a policy of: juveniles allowed on buses to Mall-- only when accompanied by an adult ?

Does it bother any of you that there was a kid running around Fashion Square with a gun? People are always complaining about how dangerous it is to live in certain city neighborhoods well.....

Whomever said they "arrived via public transit."

I'm calling B.S. on that person or organization.

Something similar happened in 2007 and 2008. And it doesn't happen that frequently because people are taking the bus.

It happens that frequently because people for whom this sort of behavior is acceptable - they live within walking distance of the Fashion Mall.

But do the business owners want to admit that? No, they would rather suggest it was an outside element who arrived via public transit.

Media still takes a blame in my book because they ignore the fact that poverty is within walking distance of the Fashion Mall.

"I dare say that’s up to parents not schools. Hopefully parents would send children to school that teachers could teach."

Yeah that sure would be nice, too. However, it remains the responsibility of the school to make sure that the disruptive kids behave while in school to provide a good learning environment, even if they're allowed to be hellions at home. Clearly that is not happening either.

these hooligans clearly don't know the stress relief and calming effects of a well rolled j. Who out there denies that a hit of sensemillia bud would of prevented any acts of violence? Instead we would be hearing about the overwelming presence of teens lined up at Chick fil a and Sbarro's. trust

Ok, to clear something up here. I work at the mall and witnessed said "disturbance". I will say it was way WAY over 100 kids, they started at the Belk mens/ houseware store and caused the "disturbance" from there all the way down to JcPenny. The mall asked all stores to close their doors and asked ALL customers to leave the mall while the "swept" the mall for firearms, etc. As for the CTS discussion, I have no idea how these juveniles got to he mall and don't care; I will say that the majority of the fighting and disturbance was being caused by young females, and some other younger (11-14) males. All the employees of the mall had to be escorted out by mall security after closing each store, and there still is a lot of concern for safety at the mall. I can also say this has hurt business in an already struggling economy. So I don't care how they got to the mall and whom they were but somebody needs to discipline their children. I would also like to say that the albermarle police department did a fine job handling this many juveniles, with such few hands.

So in closing the CTS discussion is a mute point, the main problem is this many juveniles causing a "disturbance".

Because everyone involved in the riot is on welfare, right?

A PUNK IS A PUNK IS A PUNK...NO MATTER WHAT COLOR OR FINANCIAL STATUS. A GUN IS A GUN IS A GUN AND DEADLY. A VICTIM IS A VICTIM IS A VICTIM AND JUST AS DEAD. ANYWHERE USA AND IN CHARLOTTESVILLE, VA TOO...

"Apply a stern and rigid policy of sterilization and segregation to that grade of population whose progeny is already tainted or whose inheritance is such that objectionable traits may be transmitted to offspring."

Sorry, I meant to link to this story from today's Detroit News.

http://detnews.com/article/20100311/METRO/3110471/Brawl-erupts-at-senten...

Are we so different from Detroit or anywhere else? Where is the root cause of all this reckless hate and how should it be addressed?

This is what happens when sissies and bureaucrats and gargantuan early menopausing women get ahold of the school system, it turns out kids with no respect for authority that are quietly moved through instead of taught proper manners. Fire all the pencil necks and lardos and hire Marines to teach the kids and this will no longer be a problem.

"turns out kids with no respect for authority " I dare say that's up to parents not schools. Hopefully parents would send children to school that teachers could teach.

Since fighting seems to be their form of recreation .."their" meaning all parties involved ... I say when these brawls break out, rope off the area and let them beat the living tar out of each other. When the fighting is over, call the morgue for those who need it, and hand out bags of ice to the rest and send them off to lick their wounds.

Where they are not learning their respect is at home - not at school, and they are a disgrace to their corrupt so-called culture. Quit blaming the wrong people and start holding their parents and any adults involved accountable for their actions. What are the malls (downtown, Fashion Square or anyone else) going to do about it? What can they do?

"As an educated African-American, even I am offended by Just Bob’s comments. C’mon Bob, let’s use our brain cells. That will allow us to focus on the problem; what are kids from my community being offered, nothing. That’s why they head to the mall and cause trouble. Denying the truth won’t solve the problem, it is people like you that have been burying us since LBJ."

What are your suggestions? What should be offered and what makes you think kids of other origins have so much more? This is not a trick question or a bait question. I really want to understand this thought process.

"Voted Wrong in 2008" said:

'That will allow us to focus on the problem; what are kids from my community being offered, nothing...."
______

I didn't realize it was the community's responsibility to "offer" kids something in order to keep them out of the mall, and keep them out of brawls, and prevent them from having guns, knives, weapons, etc. Your point of view *shirks personal responsbility,* and makes it *other* people's responsibility to offer - ie, entertain, amuse, babysit, etc. - the community's youth.

Where are the parents? It's called *parenting.*

As these kids misbehave in school, they tie up valuable time so that everybody loses - the teachers and ALL of the children. Apparently, mert has a point in that the schools are not properly equipped/trained/willing/able to deal with what is going on in the classroom.

This problem has been going on for 50 years that I have seen personally. What's the answer then? Reform the schools to deal more effectively with these miscreants - bring them into society proper so they can get jobs, buy houses and raise their children to take responsibility for themselves like the rest of us? Outreach to the young women getting pregant? Roll tanks and riots?

"Please explain to all of us how their academic records or experiences relate to their behavior at the mall and how the parenting they receive at home is irrelevant."

When did I say the parenting is irrelevant? My point is that unfortunately not all kids get proper parenting at home, so it's up to schools sometimes to at least intervene enough to institute some proper behavior. I agree that parenting is the best way to instill good values and mannerisms, but there is no practical way to enforce that short of giving everyone a social worker, which in practice would be just as worthless because they're the same sorts of sissies that are in charge of schools, or some draconian 1984 sort of controlled birth measures. You can complain about it all you want that much of it is on parents, and I'll find no fault in what you're saying, but that just propagates the blame game while nothing gets fixed.

"This problem has been going on for 50 years that I have seen personally. What’s the answer then?"

Pretty easy, hire acekickers to teach hooligans and give them a more disciplined education, and strike their record clean when they graduate. Give them an authority they will respect and a purpose to excel. Probably won't clear out all the bad apples, but it will take care of the vast majority.

If people want a well behaved, respectable, crime-free society then several things would have to be done that are obviously not going to happen:

1) The "System" has to change from the inside out, society has to be re-manufactured in order to eliminate poverty and ignorance, and the apathetic welfare state, juvenile delinquency and adult crime that it breeds. Again, not gonna to happen. It's too out of control by this point and only going to get worse as the economy continues to tank. You think a few hoodlums running amok at Fashion Square was bad, just give it another 1-2 years when the economy hits new lows never before seen, coupled with a few other "problematic factors" that will be converging at the same time, and all the desperate crime it creates. Good times await everybody.

2) Regulate the pregnancy/parenting process, ie, everybody needs to undergo rigorous testing and licensing before they're allowed to spawn in order to ensure they're educated enough to be bringing productive, healthy, mentally balanced kids into the world that will be society's positive future instead of society's criminal/prison/welfare problem. A situation where many people would be denied procreation because they're too ignorant, drug addicted, mentally unstable, etc. to properly raise a child. You need a license before you can do some of the most petty things in this society yet, spawning the future of society is completely willy nilly.

#2 is akin to "1984," but, that's about what you'd have to do in order to bring about an end to hoodlums, future prison candidates, uneducated welfare parents and kids running around in malls with guns or knives. Since most people want to be free and not live in a police state, and since the complete overhaul of how society functions from top to bottom is never going to happen, then you have to accept the problems that go with it. End of story.

I see alot of blame on the parents but how can yall say that the parents arent doing their parenting duties. Kids have a mind of their own and do what they choose. Some listen to parents and some don't no matter if youre black, white, blue, purple or whatever color. when kids are out with there friends they will act totally different then in front of their parents. you can'tcontrol everything your kids does

what does being smart to have babies have anything to do with the mall situation

Charlotesville is not the only town that needs a leash law

http://www.break.com/usercontent/2009/2/Alabama-Basketball-Brawl-G-W-Car...

Listen, people. The solution is simple. Stop allowing children to watch European soccer. There's at least one riot involving weapons a week involving hundreds and children mimic adults.

@ "Margaret Sanger"
What does an obsolete and overbroad plan for the prevention of birth defects have to do with this debate?

"I see alot of blame on the parents but how can yall say that the parents arent doing their parenting duties. Kids have a mind of their own and do what they choose."

You are beyond retarded. Every action kids perform is an imitation of what they have seen before, and they repeat it if it is encouraged or tolerated. Hopefully you'll never be a parent but I fear you probably already are one.

How about allocating enough law enforcement at the mall on weekends so these young people can face arrest? How about security cameras where folks get off the bus to help with identifying the brawlers? How about monitoring the web sites where these "parties" are being planned (see front page of todays DP)? How about banning kids from the mall if convicted?
AND, how about if we stop making excuses for unacceptable behavior?It is not the fault of the community, the schools or even the parents(though the parents should be ashamed of their offspring). Anyone old enough to be unsupervised at the mall is old enough to face consequences for criminal behavior.

S'up Mert!

Mertilator: "You are beyond retarded. Every action kids perform is an imitation of what they have seen before, and they repeat it if it is encouraged or tolerated. Hopefully you’ll never be a parent but I fear you probably already are one."

By that logic your parents must have been insufferable, intolerant, know-it-all pricks and your kids will likely grow up to be the same.

How about chilling out and letting kids be kids? So some stuff got smashed up, what's the big deal. 3 brawls in 4 years? You all sound like it's an epidemic. An overreaction to these isolated incidents would be a sign of feeble-mindedness.

I like the pot-smoking idea, frankly. All these "get tough" solutions will just create more problems.

Gail, the police cannot be assigned to private property. Theymust be employed as private securiy on their hours off.

That is not the case as it has been explained to neighborhoods in the city for well over 10 years. Otherwise, the city would have assigned a police office to Garrett Square, Blue Ridge Commons and Hardy Drive. True, there as been police substations at Hardy Drive, Walker Square, and the Ix property and other places but they are not "assigned" to speciaically patrol those private properties, but rather the surrouning public areas. I believe the policeman, if he is only patrolling Barracks Road, is doing it on his own time.

Thanks Gas .. I know there use to be one on bicycle patrol during daylight hours only. He retired, and another took his place, but that must have fizzled at some point I guess.

Good point, Rob! I don't even know if they still exist or not either. Even more interesting, I do not recall if they had arrest powers or not. I don't think they did, therefore nobody really took them serious.

@Voted wrong in 2008

I think other commenters have addressed the issue. But as you specifically mentioned me I figured I would address your comments myself. Of course there may be some duplication of thought/sentiment.

You wrote:

***As an educated African-American, even I am offended by Just Bob’s comments. C’mon Bob, let’s use our brain cells. That will allow us to focus on the problem; what are kids from my community being offered, nothing. That’s why they head to the mall and cause trouble. Denying the truth won’t solve the problem, it is people like you that have been burying us since LBJ.***

I don't understand the reasons for your being offended.

I don't see any "problem". The kids in **"your community"** have access to the same things as do the kids in any community in the area.

Why is it my responsibility to parent the kids in **"your community"** ?? Why is it government's responsibility to parent them??

It isn't.

I didn't decide to have children I couldn't afford and/or didn't want. I didn't decide to make those children the responsibility of government to raise. It is simply not my problem.

What is **"the problem"** we are not focusing on??

What truth are we denying?

In fact your entire comment sounds like a justification for "EXTORTION".

As in:

What have you given me to prevent this?? Nothing? Okay well then it's your fault when my guys come in and break the windows of your store and make it impossible for you to conduct business.

By your comment alone I honestly doubt that you are African American. Black people I know wouldn't post a comment as stupid as yours. And educated black people would articulately state their grievances and propose solutions.

Yes, Margaret Sanger to her great shame and infamy was a proponent of eugenics and we all know how that ended up, with the Nazis copying Virginia's eugenics law and using it to justify the killing of children and adults by their doctors, google T-4 where the first gas chamber was tested on psychiatric patients by their own doctors and spread to children and adults and the camps where millions died. A brawl leads you to eugenics? Maybe get a life Margaret Sanger?

It's not. That's why I didn't bother to comment.
"I didn’t decide to make those children the responsibility of government to raise" sounds like "on welfare" to me. Thanks for clarifying your thoughts.

Glad to be able to clarify.

Well said, pro-civilization.

Here's a good one, second paragraph about the complaint against the Nazis: http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:Af8ZxmkKeVUJ:hubpages.com/hub/The_Na...

Sorry, first paragraph.

http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:ty0pA2L2ArcJ:hnn.us/articles/1796.ht... attributes to California. DeJarnette at Western State said "The Germans are beating us at our own game."

was the crowd of kids primarily from one race?

"I have a thought. Base the amount of the welfare check (subsidy, whatever) not on how many kids you have, but on the behavior of those kids. Allison gets a ââ?¬Ë?D’ in math, your check is $30 less. Tyrone gets arrested for being in a gang related activity at the mall, your check next month is $250 less. I’d even be willing to give them more money (after all, as a tax payer, it is my money to give) if their kids get good grades in school. Jeffrey gets all ââ?¬Ë?A’s on his report card, you get a $100 bonus next month. Maybe some folks need an incentive."

We tried a variation of this with No Child Left Behind where student performance in Standards of Learning tests was based on the amount of funding schools got per student. All it did was destroy education by making teachers spend half their school year on SOL subject learning and losing any love students might have for learning. The next generation is coming out of schools with their sole motivation being self gratification, they feel no purpose because they are not instilled with any ideals. Everything is forced mediocrity and excuses.

Social experiments just don't work. Using tried and true methods, having strong authority figures to instill virtue and inspire wonder in the next generation, and harsh punishment for anyone betraying the public trust must all happen before we will fix any of the many social problems we have.

"She just wanted to stop blacks from breeding...What’s so wrong about that?" Um, Margaret Sanger, whoever you are, I can't even begin to understand your mind, attitude, and statements, are you being ironic or are you a flat out believer in race supremacy???? If the latter, well, God forgive you and change your heart and mind. Time for everyone one to stand up against hate so Charlottesville can rank higher on the Southern Poverty Law Center's map of Virginians standing up against hate groups, Charlottesville should be in the top five but it isn't....http://www.splcenter.org/get-involved/stand-strong-against-hate Don't let Henrico County win :). Seriously.

"... they feel no purpose because they are not instilled with any ideals." I do not look to the schools to give children a purpose, I wnat them to be abe to read. Before the state and federal governments stepped in the children struggled although they had A's. That's why so many school divisions were in trouble when they started giving the SOL tests. Even Albemarle and Charlottesville.

This is unacceptable behavior by any person and a community should not have to be parents to these children. What if an adult pulled out his gun and shot one of these kids? Then what? People would be screaming all about that. Now save the drama for your mamma. These children and their parents need to be held accountable with court fees, and charge them with inciting riots as adults. I am sorry but making apologies for this kind of behavior only allows this to go on. The "I have to work 3 jobs" excuse is lame, it does not mean it let's you off from being a parent. Children need parents, and are begging for the limits to be set. As you all know they push the limit to see how much they can get away with. Well I hope the authorities show them that was too far. The best way to help and empower someone is to show them you like them as a person, but might not accept their behaviors. We do a horrible job of this in town with guilt running amuck. I know I grew up here and was one of these kids not long ago. I tell you what if I was there and my wife and kid got caught up in this I would have been in trouble if I rolled some teens right? You bet. Set the limit!

I think people are making a lot of valid points, as well as some ridiculous statements. Yes, there is research that shows a correlation between low-income and crime, teenage pregnancy, etc. I don't think it's fair to assume that these kids are from those low-income families. Yes, there are "low-income" properties close to the mall. Yes, there is a transit system that could bring folks from all over Charlottesville to the mall. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that we should look past where these kids may be living. Yes, people need to be parents. In these difficult (for some) economic times, some parents are forced to be less of a parent and more of a bread-winner. No matter where these kids came from geographically, or what type of family they have, they obviously need to make better choices for themselves. There's a saying that "It takes a village to raise a child." Obviously some on these postings don't agree with that. Children are not only influenced by what goes on in their home, but by what they see in their communities, on television, and in their schools. Change should occur everywhere, not just in their homes.

deleted by a certain sporting goods store

The limits need to be set legally as they would for any person in civilization is my point. Once again I repeat I was one of these types of kids and I assure you people told me when I did something unacceptable, I listened to and respected that. That is community. Kids need limits and will push it to get them we are all hardwird that way. Time for some tough love my people, stop being scared.