Face-off: Casteen to fight Cuccinelli climate inquest

news-cuccinelli-casteen-iCasteen vows to fight Cuccinelli's inquest.
FILE PHOTOS BY LISA PROVENCE, CUCCINELLI CAMPAIGN

Lamenting that the controversial climate inquest launched last month by Virginia Attorney General Ken Cuccinelli has "sent a chill" through Virginia colleges and universities, UVA President John Casteen announced Thursday that the University of Virginia has filed papers in Albemarle Circuit Court to fight the inquest.

Remarking that Cuccinelli's Civil Investigative Demands, or CIDs are sending "a chill that has reached across the country and attracted the attention of all of higher education," Casteen, in a prepared statement, portrays his stand on the issue as a defense of academic freedom.

AG Cuccinelli, however, portrays it as a potential swindle.

"This is about rooting out possible fraud and not about infringing upon academic freedom," Cuccinelli said in his own statement, issued eight days earlier.

At issue is about half a million dollars in research grants obtained over several years by then UVA climate researcher Michael Mann, who is now at Penn State University. Mann's most famous contribution to popular climate science is the so-called "hockey stick graph," which portrays global temperatures as spiking, like the blade of a hockey stick. However, after the unauthorized release of emails from a British climate center, the motives of the some researchers, including Mann, have come under question.

81 comments

"Intellectually sophisticated people are never going to vote for a Cuccinelli. The Washington Post actually referred to his record of ââ?¬Å?bigotry” in editorializing against him before the November election. Unfortunately, anti-intellectualism goes over well in much of Virginia, particularly among older voters."

Lol. Pretty good troll but the sad part is many 'smart' people believe this. The 'intellectual elite' have no grasp of how the real world works since many are coddled most their lives.

As stated earlier. Acadamia is really worried because their golden goose may be caged.

To Carter: Delegate. Look it up.

"Intellectually sophisticated people" I'm through.

The last time I went to a poll (when I registered, I hadn't gotten a college degree) and first voted, no one asked me about my education level. I have never been asked about my educaion level. I am convinced also that exit polls are useless. Did Gov. Wilder lose in the exit polls but actually win the election? Did it occur to you that most educated people did not participate in the exit poll? Would you also agree that the 2008 election was not the norm for elections?
"Let’s be honest - Republicans long ago turned off and wrote off educated voters." Unfortunately more and more people are voting for anybody that will provide them with government handouts.

@cville eye
"ââ?¬Å?”Što further a political agenda that should be decried.” Maybe I would decry the agenda if I knew what it is."

This is a joke, right? Did you really not understand that sentence or are you just trying to have some fun?

Did it occur to you that most educated people did not participate in the exit poll? Would you also agree that the 2008 election was not the norm for elections?
***
Of course, most people did not participate in the exit poll. It's a sample. Are you suggesting that Republicans with graduate degrees were much more likely to decline to participate in exit polling than Democrats with graduates degrees? And this inference is based on what?

Ummm, you did notice that Democrat candidates have easily won among people with graduate degrees since 1992, right?

No, I didn't notice anything because I don't give a rat's behind about Democrats or Republicans. They're all like dogs, they run in packs. Pack thinking isn't indicative of having any education at all.

I guess that's why people are saying that America is going to the dogs.

Lets see who is putting up the money !

***
Ummm, mainly NSF and NOAA. Let me guess, you're not getting a lot of NSF funding at the moment.

I guess people commenting here about Cuccinelli's agenda are too cowardly to spell out in simple language to say what they think it is. Since nobody knows you, why not?

gotmyvote, go right ahead, and read through the papers. The state of Virginia should not be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars to satisfy your idle curiosity, or even worse, attempt to fulfill a political agenda to a specific group of people.

So, Cville Eye, you are saying the Virginia government should not be promoting the development of science and technology in the state? Then this is not about Mann, but rather about the state budgetary focus.

Your teacher premise also has a deep flaw. Obviously you can hire one person, or even denote the school security, to scrutinize computer records for the whole school. Who are you going to hire to go through every single grant given out ever in the state of Virginia? Who are you going to get to have the necessary expertise, and more importantly how much are you going to pay, to go through all the notes, data, charts, correspondence... etc? This exercise is a colossal waste of taxpayer's resources.

Certainly people outside the academia can look at the results. They have the same access as the scientists to the papers, and they can review the methodology and results there. To have Cuccinelli singling out a specific study that runs counter to his political belief, however, is wrong. It is the reason why scientists all over the United States are urging UVA to resist the CID, and it is the reason why Casteen is fighting this.

Who hid real data, carter? Did you glance at the hacked email and quickly rush on here to accuse Mann of wrong-doing? This is Mann's explanation of hide the decline means:

The ââ?¬Å?decline” refers to a well-known decline in the response of only a certain type of tree-ring data (high-latitude tree-ring density measurements collected by Briffa and colleagues) to temperatures after about 1960. In their original article in Nature in 1998, Briffa and colleagues are very clear that the post-1960 data in their tree-ring dataset should not be used in reconstructing temperatures due to a problem known as the "divergence problem" where their tree-ring data decline in their response to warming temperatures after about 1960.

All the investigations that preceded Cuccinelli's requests agreed with Mann. I bet Rush/Glenn didn't mention that part.

Motivation is the key here, as in what are Cuccinelli's?
1)If you truly believe he is fighting for the pockets of the people of Va. you must admit there are much more efficient causes to pursue with much greater impact potential than this.
2)He is first a politician. I have read mention of academia's "agenda" here but little of Mr. Cuccinelli's. He is not a public servant. That would be the officer who pulls you out of a ditch, the firefighter who rescues your family, teh EMT resuscitating your grandaprent. He is a politician and by nature has an agenda. If you honestly believe this man is here to fight for YOUR pockets, not his and his friends you are naive.
3)If we reflect on the man's short time in office a picture begins to form. This isn't the first action by his office to garner national media. That is surely not incidental. Keep in mind too the, shall we say "political flavor", of the first media grab.

Of course we should do the same for Casteen, and I'm sure similar arguments could be made in his case. Yet, I will say this in his defence; Academia as rule must be funded by government to have any credibility in independance. However, when government uses its strong arm, he is the AG not the budget office, to shape where and to whom research dollars go then its time for us to sit up and take notice.

What Unbelievable said.
It wouldn't be surprising to see the AG drop this matter entirely. After all, he's accomplished what he set out to do: further ingratiate himself with his base (and he'll need their support in 2013!) by taking a stand against the nefarious forces of AGW. Whatever comes out of this investigation (and who seriously believes anything will?), he's already won.

Where is the evidence of fraud involving these grant requests from 5+ years ago? It simply does not exist, which explains the casting of such a wide, vague net. 10 years worth of documents/materials and all correspondence (even since Mann’s departure from UVA) to/from Mann to/from/about 40 other scientists? An absurd request.

It’s a text-book example of a political fishing expedition. Can anyone seriously say otherwise?

ââ?¬Å?Let the sunshine” indeed. There has been enough light shed on Mann and his work over the years, but you’re probably only interested in seeing it when a political operative from your ranks is holding the spotlight.

"...to further a political agenda that should be decried." Maybe I would decry the agenda if I knew what it is.

Yes, Dems will be Dems and Reps will be Reps. If you re-read the comments, and stop reacting in the typical party politics mentality of making everything an issue of Dem/Rep, you will see that most people are interest in the fraud aspect. How do you know that Mann is a Dem, BTW? Are you saying that he got his grants for five years because of his party affiliation?

I thought people mentioned it already. It is to pander to his conservative and Tea-Bagger base, who generally oppose the notion of global warming.

Perhaps my counter-factual example was confusing. I meant to point out that those now cheering the AG for this kind of investigation would likely feel differently were the situation reversed. How that leads to my assuming Mann's politics and how his politics lead to his grants escapes me.

Saying "It's all politics" is not a good enough reason to accept this kind of behavior. I seriously doubt that most AG supporters are concerned with fraud, but okay, sure, whatever. Really, though, that's entirely beside the point. The question is "do you think Cuccinelli's primary interest in pursuing this legal action is fraud-based or politics-based?" I think we can all agree on the answer to that.

@gotmyvote - I don't know why you'd bet that someone works in the public sector because he doesn't want to mis-use public money on frivolous investigations. But maybe he is a public employee, just one that doesn't happen to work in the AG's office.

and that would be?

@Cville Eye - of course his press secretary would say that. However, Virginia law states the following,

Virginia Code 57-59 (deals with Solicitation of Contributions for Charitable Organizations): "Whenever the Attorney General has reasonable cause to believe that any person has operated, is operating or is about to operate in violation of the provisions of this chapter, the Attorney General may issue a civil investigative demand."

So, Cuccinelli can issue a CID just like he did with UVa. So, the question is will he issue a CID to investigate Fraud when he's earned $50,000 from that fraud?

Isn't that organization in Florida? Is it registered in Virginia? Maybe it's a question of jurisdiction which would explain why he didn't as Stheir records.

"also what’s with the ââ?¬Å?you people” thing? Im I a different class person then you?"

Well to start with, you seem to be somewhat illiterate. So when it comes to making judgements regarding academic issues, I'd have to say yes.

Are you saying he’s willing to gamble alienating every person in VA who has allied himself with Academia for future votes?
****
Yes. Intellectually sophisticated people are never going to vote for a Cuccinelli. The Washington Post actually referred to his record of "bigotry" in editorializing against him before the November election. Unfortunately, anti-intellectualism goes over well in much of Virginia, particularly among older voters.

Look at Palin. Look at George W. Bush. Cuccinelli's a lot brighter than those two but realizes that many conservative voters distrust so-called "elites."

@mac the cheese.

See, the problem is that many of you read these stories and did not realize a whole bunch of investigations have already been done by other political and scientific organizations, and none of them found wrongdoing by Mann. You all assume Cuccinelli is the first one to jump on Mann, whereas the reality is that he is merely pandering to his conservative base by wasting tax money in repeating the "investigation".

@research, from your link: Cuccinelli press secretary Brian Gottstein said the Virginia Office of Consumer Affairs administers Virginia's charitable solicitation laws and handles investigations of nonprofits but does not fall under the control of the attorney general.

"It would be atypical for the attorney general's office to initiate an investigation into a nonprofit," Gottstein said in a statement. He said the attorney general's office would chiefly become involved if an investigation led to legal action.

@JJ, "Perhaps my counter-factual example was confusing. I meant to point out that those now cheering the AG for this kind of investigation would likely feel differently were the situation reversed." Give us a example of a reversed situation. I thought this was it - "If a Democratic AG starts investigating more Republicans than Democrats for tax fraud, drunk driving or whatever, I’m sure you’ll feel the same way." Yes, I would. You began the conversaion about my feelings about Dems and Reps.

2008 Election Results from People with Advanced Degrees:

Obama 58%
McCain 40%

http://elections.nytimes.com/2008/results/president/national-exit-polls....

Let's be honest - Republicans long ago turned off and wrote off educated voters.

Unbelievable
I have to ask do you work in the public of private sector?

My donation is made every two weeks and the question is still open.

Did UVA include every document that is being asked for by the State to other organizations for their investigations?

"Unbelievable
I have to ask do you work in the public of private sector?"

5 to 1 - Public.

also what's with the "you people" thing? Im I a different class person then you?

Also lets think about it

If the people involved truly care then why don't they lead???

99.5% of them live in large homes drive large cars and fly in privare jets. Why??? If they really, really care they would be in 1500sqft homes etc.
ITS ALL joke
UVA is a JOKE

Tax money paid for the study, and if the work supports the conclusion then just shows the work. UNLESS it doesn’t???? Then you would hide it, and keep putting that grant money in your pocket. Nice to see that someone in gov wants someone to be accountable for a change. It’s about time”Š”Š.
UVA cut the shredder off and bring what’s left to the table.
More proof that the whole thing is just a heart string pulling money / power scam

Buffett's a Dividend Investor, Why Aren't You?
_______________________
NYSE dividend yield

"Of course, you would rather the state of Virginia waste hundreds of thousands of taxpayers’ money to review his data..." Why aren't you concerned about the hundreds of thousands of dollars the State wasted giving him the money in the first place. Why is the State studying climate change? Why isn't it spending the money on maintaining roads, something it has dominion over? If a teacher uses a school's computer to do his work, the school system has access to everything on that computer. It can even collect paper out of the garbage can. What's the difference here?
Send a chill? It should.
agarn wins this argument as far as I am concerned. I wonder why UVA and other academics feel that nobody has the right to srutinize their output except members of academia? Talking about ivy towers. If they want complete ownership, use their own money, not tax payers'.

I am sure there are many other studies that go against his beliefs. He has a valid point. Was data skewed to achieve results he agreed with and to push an agenda? The release of those emails sure does make it a real possibility.

This state owes it to every taxpayer to ensure that fraud is not involved with any money that is dispersed. When an incident is reported or suspected it should be investigated to ensure it does not happen again and to serve as a warning to other applicants.

This is right along the same lines as welfare and tax fraud. Just because the word 'Academic' is used does not mean a person is above the law.

gotmyvote

BINGO

Also STOP LOOKING AT THE WEB AT WORK AND DO SOMETHING try to earn that check.

Are you saying he's willing to gamble alienating every person in VA who has allied himself with Academia for future votes? How does he expect to get elected to another job?

Please, you know bashing climate science is one of the best ways to connect to conservative crowd.

It's raining money, and the weasels are stampeding to stuff their pockets.

Golly gee-whiz, what a surprise. The UVA Robot administrator leaves UVA to become a political hardball pitcher for the home team. Who would have guessed - everybody, I would think.

Out with the old and in with the really old. Change everyone with a vested interest can believe in--bought and paid for with our Federal tax dollars.

Looks like the ladder to the top of the money tree is getting more crowded with every gold coin toss. The little people (those not quite in the $25 million per anum range)have a lot to be thankful for. An economic stimulus from a tiny red-brick tower to a slightly taller immitation ivory tower. How poetic.

"...All this is, perhaps, delightfully scientific, and yet there nevertheless remains in such controversy a seeming lack of objectivity. For instance, some psychologists in writing for publication place the mystic symbol Ph.D. after their names, but none, as far as I know, has yet seen the value of adding the statement of his own I.Q...."

--Dr.Edwin G. Boring, Ph.D. - 1928

And why are these PhDs put in place for those problems? It is because they have the necessary expertise for those areas of specialties. And yes, in those expertise, they are clearly superior to you and me in knowledge. That blowout preventer did not fail due to the design. It failed because management decided to start using seawater too early. Toyota? Acceleration problems are fixed, and they aren't even the brand with the highest number of problems. They just got the media's attentions with sensational cases (like James Sikes)

It is also clear that you know absolutely know nothing about the CRU controversy, and did not review Mann's papers nor examine the statistical methods he used. None of the investigation units, including the British government and various scientific organizations, found wrongdoing by Mann. Penn State itself reaffirmed the techniques used by Mann was legitimate and proper. So here you are, believing yourself to know more than all these apparatuses, wanting to waste Virginia's tax money to pour over thousands of documents and data.

The same could be said about you regurgitating dribbles. Get off the Beck/Palin show, and start thinking for yourself.

Who voted this fool (Cucc) into office? was this part of his platform?

I am not insinuating it I am stating it flat out. The only reason a PHD is nessasary to do a peer review is to protect themselves from people who will call them out. People with PHDs have a little more education but it does not make them any smarter. I am sure it was a phd that designed the blow off valve that failed in the gulf. I am sure it was a phd that designed the throttle system on those toyotas that kill people and I am sure it is an entire group of phds that cannot figure out why the throttles are still sticking.

Everybody knows that grants are handed out to further exisiting agendas and that grant writers suck up in order to get the money.

Get a real job and learn something real about life. Do something besides regurgitate other peoples regurgitated dribble and actually earn some money instead of taking money from people who worked for it in order to subsidize your personal agenda.

Mann has already been laid out as twisting the truth as far as he could.

Let the sunshine.

Cuccinelli is an embarrassment!

Are you insinuating that the grant community funds their personal agendas? Well then, why don't you go right ahead, earn the necessary PhD, and start writing peer reviews lambasting their papers?

Oh right, you probably have never read the papers.

Casteen is right... this inquiry sent a chill over a large part of the grant community who relies on a steady stream of taxpayer money to fund their personal agendas without accountability.

Every person in the real world has to account for their actions why not researchers?

Let the sunshine...

I thought you left? Oh, but I guess the words "UVA", "Casteen", "Lawsuit" are too much for you.

If you wish to challenge Dr. Mann's studies, feel free to go look at the scientific journals he published in, critique it and write a peer review. (<Not that you are qualified, like Cuccinelli). The information there are open for all.

Of course, you would rather the state of Virginia waste hundreds of thousands of taxpayers' money to review his data, which has been further corroborated by other scientists. As the investigation team of East Anglia University states: "We saw no evidence of any deliberate scientific malpractice in any of the work of the Climatic Research Unit and had it been there we believe that it is likely that we would have detected it. Rather we found a small group of dedicated if slightly disorganized researchers who were ill-prepared for being the focus of public attention. As with many small research groups their internal procedures were rather informal."

Of course, this perfectly normal explanation will not satisfy your conspiracy mind.

I thought you left too..

Who better than to try and cover things up than Charlottesville's Captain Cover Up himself?

http://www.uvavictimsofrape.com/

http://uvalies.org/

Gee, I thought science was supposed to be open and honest and open for all to see and interpret? For peers to review and for conclusions to be drawn as to whether the data was good and the scientific method was followed faithfully? For people to be convinced by the overwhelming evidence, or to question the data and/or the process?

Seems like UVA is fiercely "protecting us" from knowing something as mundane as air temperature data and how it was compiled as much as they are at keeping us in the dark about medical science and sexual assaults.

Why wouldn't they be just handing everything over happily to prove to everyone how well spent our tax dollars were?

Your Hartman BBQ story is not loading.

Go Cuccinelli!!!!!

"Are you insinuating that the grant community funds their personal agendas? Well then, why don’t you go right ahead, earn the necessary PhD, and start writing peer reviews lambasting their papers?
Oh right, you probably have never read the papers."

This is exactly why I am for the request. A money pit grant system keeping itself honest? Surely you jest.

Academics work can be scrutinized by the public. There are these things called "journals" that publish this thing called "research." Academics cannot receive funding or employment unless they publish their results. Academics and non-academics alike are encouraged to scrutinize those results. With the advent of the internet, anyone who takes the time or effort can educate themselves about a field and make major contributions.

Now, many of those journals charge on a per article or subscription basis. If you want to argue that those should be free, more power to you.

As to the idea that teachers computers can be scrutinized by their employers, this is certainly true. Any employer has the right to scrutinize their employees to make sure everything is on the up and up. They don't, however, have the right to make that information public, as the employees are entitled to a fair amount of personal privacy.

Academics are already among the most open people in the world. Almost all of them have public websites with their contact information. Their offices are open to anyone. All of their work is published in the scientific literature for all to see. Unless there is evidence of outright fabrication in their work, academics deserve what little privacy they haven't already given up.

Cville Eye...the state doesn't fund grant studies for the most part, NIH does, it's federal tax dollars and there a millions out their studying climate change because it is such a big problem...

@UVA alum, "In papers sent to UVA April 23, Cuccinelli’s office commands the university to produce a sweeping swath of documents relating to Mann’s receipt of nearly half a million dollars in state grant-funded climate research conducted while Mannââ?¬â? now director of the Earth System Science Center at Penn State ââ?¬â? was at UVA between 1999 and 2005." http://www.readthehook.com/blog/index.php/2010/04/29/oh-mann-cuccinelli-.... Regardless of where the tax payer money came from it is obviously under the oversight of the State that distributed it ( although I wonder, too, why the National Institue of Health would be funding this type of research). You know as well as I do, if Cuccinelli has no jurisdiction, UVA would ignore his request.
@Unbelievable, "So, Cville Eye, you are saying the Virginia government should not be promoting the development of science and technology in the state?" Do you think the State should be conducting research in out of space? It should be selective as to what research it conducts. Endangered species in VA for example, yes. Space travel no. Global warming, of course not. Both are out of the purview of the State.
"This exercise is a colossal waste of taxpayer’s resources."
So you're saying that if a corporation has indulged in fraud in corruption, the State should not waste its resources going through thousands of documents to detail it?
ââ?¬Å?Certainly people outside the academia can look at the results. They have the same access as the scientists to the papers, and they can review the methodology and results there.” Here, I believe you're saying that the State's oversight of state-funded research should be limited to what the grantee has published in a journal?
I'm getting the impression that some of you would like for Academia to be treated like members of a special class of people receiving State money, that is, like an elite group, apart from the run of the mill public.

I am sure there are many other studies that go against his beliefs. He has a valid point. Was data skewed to achieve results he agreed with and to push an agenda? The release of those emails sure does make it a real possibility.
***
The emails showed no evidence of deception or fraud. Cucc knows better but is obviously doing this to pander to his conservative base, who do not understand the scientific research process.

UVA alum May 28th, 2010 | 2:02 pm
Cville Eye”Šthe state doesn’t fund grant studies for the most part, NIH does, it’s federal tax dollars and there a millions out their studying climate change because it is such a big problem

Maybe they don't teach you this at UVA but Federal Tax Dollars are STILL THE PEOPLE'S MONEY. Also the people that are saying that its "such a big problem" are the people HIDDING THE REAL DATA. If its a real problem they would be falling over each other to show the data.

Ah, we get to the crux of the issue here: carter doesn't believe in global warming, so he thinks Cuccinelli should go after these climate scientists.

Nice to see political ideology get in the way of science!

True science can prove its conclusions, unless it doesn’t fit the agenda that you want to support. Then you might change a few things to fit the conclusion that keeps the money flowing.

"So there shouldn’t be an issue with turning over the paperwork. If other investigations took place then the papers from UVA should have been included.

Oh wait”Šmaybe the investigations were not thorough and were missing pieces of the puzzle. Could it be that new information could result in a different outcome?

I hope his research is solid. If it is not there will be changes in funding procedures that the research world will not like. I believe this is why Acadamia is running scared right now."

Oh wait... so you are saying that the state of Virginia should discount all previous investigations and go on a fishing trip? Could it be that we have a willing person here who would pay upwards of a million dollars to comb through these documents? Why, be my guest! Once you made your donation we can start talking.

Unbelievable
I hope his research is solid. If it is not there will be changes in funding procedures that the research world will not like. I believe this is why Acadamia is running scared right now.”

I would think a good person would want the research to be tainted. Then we could put that funding toward something worth while. Punish the people involved in the theft of public and the world is fine after all.

Oh of course, fraud must be punished, as was seen in the case of Wakefield and his unethical practices over at the United Kingdom.

Let's look at the Mann case again.
1. Emails from a UK university were hacked, and documents were put out to the public. In particular, some emails used wording such as "hide the decline" and "tricks".
2. The researchers themselves explained the wordings, noting that the trick referred to a legitimate statistical methods, and the decline was talking results done by another scientist who cautioned that they should be used anyways.
3. United Kingdom government, independent panels, and many other scientific organizations including Penn State, Mann's current employer, found no wrong-doing and noted that the results were completely legitimate after careful review.
4. Here we are, after all those organizations confirmed Mann's research methodologies, Cuccinelli decide Virginia tax payers should waste a million dollars to look at everything again.

I thought you people are fiscal conservatives?

@Cville Eye

Ah yes, well, if everything is political to a politician, we should smile and accept these kind of blatant political games. Boys will be boys after all!

If a Democratic AG starts investigating more Republicans than Democrats for tax fraud, drunk driving or whatever, I'm sure you'll feel the same way. You know how these guys are!

At least it's refreshing to know that no one actually believes that this is really about fraud, they are just happy enough to go along with the charade while it benefits their side.

Why wouldn’t they be just handing everything over happily to prove to everyone how well spent our tax dollars were?

Since when is science done behind closed doors, with the data and the methodology a secret even to the taxpayers who funded it? Since when is science regarding our well being and our very survival to kept from people, and shielded from public view and protected from scrutiny and review?

Oh, wait.. We're talking about UVA.

Nevermind.

"Can you honestly say that this is not political on Cuccinelli's part? And does that not concern you in the least?" Everything to a politician is political, even his marriage, his children, his religion, his hair and his middle aged spread. Does it concern me? This is a fact that I have lived with for decades upon decades.

A few points...

Four of the five grants in question were Federal grants, not state grants. What authority does Cuccinelli have over Federal money? None.

How will Cuccinelli make sense of the scientific data requested in the CID? He will hire experts who likely have already evaluated the quality of Mann's research through the peer review process (and the other investigations described previously).

Also, Cuccinelli doesn't seemed too concerned about fraud when he is profiting from it. He received over $50,000 from a donor now being investigated for fraud. He is also unwilling to investigate the donor for fraud, unlike Attorney Generals from other states. http://www2.timesdispatch.com/rtd/news/state_regional/state_regional_gov....

Eye, if I wrongly assumed your party affiliation, my apologies. Perhaps I should not have mentioned party labels, but my point remains. Few among Cuccinelli's supporters now would find the misuse of the AG's office for political gain acceptable in similar, yet reversed circumstances.

The inescapable fact, however, is that this is, at its heart, a purely political move. It's unfortunate that not everyone finds it objectionable, because it's precisely the fact that he's using fraud as an excuse to further a political agenda that should be decried.

Didn't Goode lose to Perriello by about 720 votes?

No, S Jones, I am afraid of you wasting my taxdollar on your nonsense.

Nice little conspiracy you got there too. Its all the rage in America these days. Believe in any little crackpot stories you hear. No wonder its such a mess in this country.

"Lets see who is putting up the money!" I certainly don't want my tax money being used for this ridiculous request.

Skools is for sissys! Get a job, Git r done....

"True science can prove its conclusions, unless it doesn’t fit the agenda that you want to support. Then you might change a few things to fit the conclusion that keeps the money flowing."

True science can prove its conclusion, unless it doesn't fit the ideological minds of some people, who can the use their power to change the conclusions by persecuting those who originally made them.

So there shouldn't be an issue with turning over the paperwork. If other investigations took place then the papers from UVA should have been included.

Oh wait...maybe the investigations were not thorough and were missing pieces of the puzzle. Could it be that new information could result in a different outcome?

I hope his research is solid. If it is not there will be changes in funding procedures that the research world will not like. I believe this is why Acadamia is running scared right now.

"If”Š could”Š Fix the bridges bewfore somebody dies. Let the international community handle space research. Let Monsanto and the USDA handle the agriculture." If... could... Those words drive scientific research forward. If you do not understand that, then say no more on this subject.

"What does that mean, different standards for different people? A lot of academics work for corporation. If they are fraudulent using corporate money that’s on a different level than being fraudulent using government money that they are not entitled to and more than they are to corporate money? The comment is not making any sense to me, especially since these ââ?¬Å?academics” float between corporate and government employment several times during their careers."

And what would you do here, investigate every single corporations/academia in the state of Virginia every year? Here is the same scenario as Mann: If BP's BOP theoretically was designed at UVA with the help of research money from Dept of Energy, and federal government and other science organizations concluded it is not to blame, you would still let Cuccinelli go after BP, demanding all documents for the last 10 years to be transferred so he can have some nighttime readings?

"Are you suggesting that millions of dollars should be given out will-nilly?" Are you suggesting you are the only one capable of determining where grant money should go to?

"By just reading journals?
This global climate warming change stuff is set to become an economically-shattering business and it should be investigated thoroughly. A lot of academics stand to make billions, paid for out of the average man’s pocket. So we should be sure that it is not a sham." Mann's studies have been shown not be a sham by various organizations' reports, which you take the time and read yourself.

@Cville Eye "So you’re saying that if a corporation has indulged in fraud in corruption, the State should not waste its resources going through thousands of documents to detail it?"

No one here has said anything approaching this. But how should the state decide what to investigate? Shouldn’t there be some indication that a misdeed has occurred?

The fact is that there is no evidence of fraud and every investigation has validated Mann and his work. Cuccinelli knows this, hence the immense scope of the data request. He clearly is on a fishing expedition, hoping to find some minor error or methodological flaw in Mann’s work to further his attack on AGW. This is a political fishing expedition masked as the fight against fraud solely (I suspect) to boost his conservative credentials.

Can you honestly say that this is not political on Cuccinelli's part? And does that not concern you in the least?

"What if the space research would bring potential jobs to the state? What if climate research could bring about agricultural advances?" If... could... Fix the bridges bewfore somebody dies. Let the international community handle space research. Let Monsanto and the USDA handle the agriculture.
"And please, you and I both know corporation corruption is on a different level." What does that mean, different standards for different people? A lot of academics work for corporation. If they are fraudulent using corporate money that's on a different level than being fraudulent using government money that they are not entitled to and more than they are to corporate money? The comment is not making any sense to me, especially since these "academics" float between corporate and government employment several times during their careers.
"And who selects what research should be conducted at UVA?" Are you suggesting that millions of dollars should be given out will-nilly?
"One of the main point in this case is that Mann has already been investigated by a whole assortment of governmental and scientific organizations, and none of them found wrongdoing." By just reading journals?
This global climate warming change stuff is set to become an economically-shattering business and it should be investigated thoroughly. A lot of academics stand to make billions, paid for out of the average man's pocket. So we should be sure that it is not a sham.

Mann got half a million from the state. That's what is being investigated. Most of his research funding would come from federal sources such as NSF and NOAA.

The "results" are not the issue... the facts behind the results are what matter. So if this guy threw away some results to skew the numbers then he committed fraud. If he did that then he stole money from the taxpayers. If he did that then the taxpayers have a right to prosecute.

If he didn't then he has nothing to worry about.

No different than the manager at wendds reviewing the security tape to see if the guy actually cleaned out the frosty machine.

whats the problem?

Carter, it is clear from your comments you did not read anything by Mann, nor the emails, and more importantly none of the investigative reports done by the British government, the panels, Penn State and other scientific organizations. The conclusion is there, the work is there, the statistical methodology was prudent.

Yes, I know, you don't believe global warming exists and all those yada-dada, so you want to persecute climate scientists.

And who selects what research should be conducted at UVA? The almighty Cuccinelli? How do you judge what is useful or not? What if the space research would bring potential jobs to the state? What if climate research could bring about agricultural advances?

And please, you and I both know corporation corruption is on a different level. One of the main point in this case is that Mann has already been investigated by a whole assortment of governmental and scientific organizations, and none of them found wrongdoing. You seriously cannot claim that Cuccinelli would be the first person to probe Mann's studies.

I'm getting the impression that some of you do not like the research being presented, and thus would like politicians who share your views to pummel the scientists. Just like the old Roman Catholic Church.

Now, if you have read the reports done by the British House of Commons, Science Assessment Panel, AMS, AGU, AAAS, NAS, Penn State... etc which concluded no wrong-doing at all, what makes you believe Cuccinelli's office would find something else? A hunch to waste taxpayers' money?

The incidence has already been investigated thoroughly by the nation in which the illegal act of hacking occurred. It has been investigated thoroughly by his current educational institute Penn State, and it has been investigated thoroughly by various scientific organizations. There are no plausible reasons for Cuccinelli to go after this other than to further his political agenda.