Let UVA police chief keep commenting

UVA Police Chief Mike Gibson’s comment about the “point of no return” that causes men to rape may help explain UVA’s policies toward rape, which are often criticized for being stacked against the victim. [October 11 edition: "Rape myth: Critics say UVA police sent the wrong message"]

He clearly carries out his duties with the understanding that, at some point leading up to a sexual assault, men lose the ability to control their actions. What a dangerous understanding for a man who is responsible for investigating rape to espouse!

We as a society tend to sympathize with people who are not in control of their actions. The law has alternate provisions for the mentally ill than it does for people who willfully violate the rights of others. I doubt that the chief was implying that all men are afflicted with a mental illness that may cause them to involuntarily rape. That would be absurd.

Although Gibson may lament that his gaffe was not circumvented by use of “messaging assistance,” I hope he will continue to address the UVA community without filters in the future, as his recent comments have provided valuable insight into his feelings toward the causes of sexual assault. His warning was written with the noble intention of preventing rape, but has also served as a revelation that he thinks of men less as intelligent creatures with decision-making abilities than as rabid carnivores who may be tempted to attack.

It is not the role of the police to instill fear of men into young women. It is not possible for the justice system to eliminate rape, but it is possible that we at least recognize that all rapes have both a perpetrator and a victim.

Jordan McNeish
Keswick

Read more on: sexual assault

20 comments

Go toke up, Jordan....

Yeah... guessing jordan is a female, commenting on male issues. OF course any male that comments on female issues is pretty much banished from the earth.....

"It is not the role of the police to instill fear of men into young women. It is not possible for the justice system to eliminate rape, but it is possible that we at least recognize that all rapes have both a perpetrator and a victim."

No, but it IS the responsibility to teach women that they need to understand the ramifications of getting wasted and playing very close to the line in a frat house full of guys with impaired judgement. The law may be on their side, the guy may go to jail , but THEY are the ones carrying the trauma for the rest of their life.

911 is more often than not, too little too late.

Gibson and crew have yet to arrest the perp - or maybe they never had any intention of arresting the perp. They say they are the finest police force in VA -- well, if they can't solve this case, methinks it's because they have no intention of doing so.

@Simply Said

"UVA is above the law". That's a direct quote!

So are UVA students, staff and employees.

They had to prosecute George Huguely as the case became international. But if anyone remembers it took that creep Casteen 3 weeks before he expelled him. Arrested for murder and it took them THREE WEEKS! If this doesn't show you how little they care for half the student body nothing will convince you!!!!

Moi -- here you go again, catching flies with vinegar. Why do you stalk me and yell at me on these boards? You need to chill and stop yelling....and read the damn school policy. They don't expel people for being arrested ... they "convince" the people to withdraw. It takes the school out of the loophole for a lawsuit if the person is found not guilty in the courts. Huguely was not a threat to anyone when he was locked up, so waiting three weeks to terminate the relationship with him was no big deal.

What is a big deal is if Gibson and company are not trying to resolve this case....because we all know that Gibson doesn't believe it is rape if the woman consumed alcohol (read his comments in The Richmond Times Dispatch series on campus rapes, Nov 2011).

Question to The Hook: Has there been any indication by the school that they have interviewed possible suspects?

And another question for The Hook; Since UVA is now supposed to have created an MAA with the Charlottesville Police, can you confirm if: 1) they have finalized an MAA with the Charlottesville Police and 2) have they contacted the Charlottesville Police to collaborate with them on this case since the perp may not be a UVA student?

What is your problem? All I did was make a factual statement. Grow up it's not all about you.

Why would any law enforcement seriously investigate anything when they know it won't get prosecuted? Why would any police dept waste their resources? I agree that the police should do their job and should do everything in their power to serve and protect but doing so will mean no promotions and perhaps even termination at the smallest infraction. So they ignore anything that is uva related and focus on catching criminals that are not uva related.

@Moi: You state "Why would any law enforcement seriously investigate anything when they know it won't get prosecuted?"

It doesn't get prosecuted because they (the UVA cops) don't properly investigate it. The cases cannot be prosecuted when the UVA cops perform inadequate investigations, fail to document key evidence, fail to interview key witnesses, and fail to insure the proper forensic evidence is gathered. It all starts with the UVA cops --- they are the ones that need to have their procedures and actions scrutinized and challenged when they fail to properly investigate felony crimes that occur on campus.

@SR
You're blaming the cops for the problem. I agree with every part of your statement and with your premise that a thorough investigation should be done but what is the point when the prosecutor doesn't prosecute? Do you really believe the cops are making those decisions on their own because they are misogynistic? If so how come they do investigate and prosecute non-UVA related rapes from time to time? The policy comes from UVA. The UVA cops follow instructions as they are a part of UVA. The Cville cops do the same because they too are compromised. It's not an accident that two separate police departments, UVA and Cville, are never able to put a case (student on student) together that the prosecutor can then follow up on. They are all involved in turning a blind eye when it comes to UVA matters. UVA is a very powerful institution and has a lot of influence in the immediate area. If you carefully look at every law enforcement official from judges to prosecutors where it matters they have a direct or indirect relationship with UVA. Otherwise there would be at least a few cases a year. Not all universities have this power and hence they cannot cover up the rapes as easily. It is a national problem but UVA is at the top of the list on this issue because they have a great set up.

@ Moi: Sorry, I have a lot of experience with this issue. In my opinion, campus police should not be investigating felony crimes. And when you want to quote Gibson, I was there at the General Assembly last year when he revised history and told the delegates falsehoods about my daughter's case.

I don't want this blog to be about me. Just know that when you "blame UVA", there are many parts to the story. An improper investigation will never ever be prosecuted. Never. My daughter's investigation was handled by a female cop - an improperly trained cop who told me that the perp was "cute", so no "misogynistic" label needed. What I would call her though cannot be printed here.

I can't follow your thread on why there are separate cops - that is the way the jurisdiction is spread. Again, the point is not which department handles or prosecutes what -- the point is that campus cops aren't trained or equipped to handle felony crime. A poor investigation = no prosecution.

http://www.readthehook.com/102337/unsilenced-how-mother-fought-protect-h...

@SR We're talking cross purposes and I'm not disagreeing with you.

My point is that Gibson is no different to all the other people you name and shame (rightly so) on your website that covered up your daughter's case. He's a UVA employee, why do you expect him to behave differently?

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Yes, but it doesn't make a difference because they are under the same UVA umbrella. If the UVA cops are incompetent then what is different about the Cville cops? They have the same record when it comes to UVA rapists. They had no problem in finding and swiftly arresting the non UVA rapist two weeks ago. He will be prosecuted and sentenced, as he doesn't have a UVA "Get out of Jail Card"

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You're making the point that they are badly trained and/or totally inept. I have no doubt whatsoever that your daughter's case was poorly investigated, if at all. My point is that even if they were trained and competent it would make no difference. Your assumption is that if a strong case is presented by the police to a prosecutor that they are obliged to prosecute. A prosecutor prosecutes at his or her own discretion. There is nothing or nobody that can force them to prosecute. My point is that the whole process is tainted and influenced by UVA and hence the reason not one UVA student has been prosecuted for raping a UVA student in years. This is not a mere coincidence, it's calculated, weighed and measured.

That apology you got was just a PR stunt as nothing really changed. I know how difficult it is to accept that someone in that position can look you in the eyes and lie to you but that is what every single UVA official did to your daughter and to hundreds of other victims over the years and they continue to do it.

All UVA rape cases fall under Lampkin's "regret sex" category.

@Moi: You are also part of the problem, not the solution. You were not there to help pass HB 2490, although you think you are the lone advocate in Charlottesville. You obviously do not have any legal training and your presumption about how CAs handle cases is far from reality. Don't address me publicly again - unless you are willing to use your real name and also put yourself and your actions out there for scrutiny.

I am unsure how you arrived at your conclusion but I have never claimed to be a lone advocate. I'm just doing it my way and it seems to be bothering you. You clearly believe you have some sort of exclusivity on the subject. You are certainly in no position to pontificate to me about what I know and don't know. No, I was not there to pass HB 2490 but how does that qualify you to make statements about what I have experienced and documented as facts.

As for my legal background you have none yourself to make such a judgment. My alleged presumption on how CAs handle their cases is based on consulting other seasoned CAs in Virginia by showing them facts and documents. So please check your facts before shooting from the hip. I know exactly how its supposed to work. You're so stuck on HB 2490 that you think that was the problem. Yes I agree if UVA police or any campus police is not equipped to investigate then HB 2490 was worth all the effort but it didn't change anything! What changes things is when the system is allowed to work as it is supposed to. Look at Old Dominion University who recently expelled rapists and they were prosecuted too:
http://hamptonroads.com/2012/07/second-odu-football-player-charged-alleg...

Now compare how the CA in Cville sees things and its at his discretion:
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/news/2011/nov/13/tdmain01-arrests-con...

Fortunately this is not all about me and since rape victims have a legal "right to privacy", despite your insistence and philosophy that handling such matters "must" be done under the scrutiny of the public. That's just your opinion and that was your position. You should learn to respect that not every victim chooses your path and I beg to differ that somehow your experience is the exclusive road map to be followed. Yes, you achieved much in shedding the light on UVA's grotesque policy but sorry it didn't change anything with respect to the result for the victims that followed, and you paid a very high price. Sorry that we are trying to learn from your mistakes and trying a different route. That's our prerogative.

I didn't see the Penn State victims publicly disclosing their names, addresses and "actions" for "public scrutiny" and they got their justice. I will respect your wish and refrain from addressing you or your posts again.

Perhaps you should address the article and both focus on the issue that Gibson is not qualified to handle cases of rape because of his ignorant personal beliefs.

There has been a great deal of enlightenment about campus rape over the past two years thanks to those who were willing to take their cause to Richmond. I have great respect for those who were willing to devote time and tears to this cause. What I learned from their experience is that they did all their work alone because very few women spoke out with them. Shame on us for watching and then pointing fingers when they failed. But did they really fail? Why didn't we also go to Richmond and fill the room with support? Because it's too easy to sit in your house and watch and criticize rather than pick up your feet and follow them. Rob Bell, our local woman's advocate, was one of the mentioned bill's biggest roadblocks -- you want to talk about the "UVA Machine", know that it extends far beyond Grounds and is present in all the UVA alumni who could now change the rules. Police departments from all over the state have been participating in forums to learn HOW to do their job better. Perhaps these police departments have cleaned house and hired better trained, more educated chiefs of police.

The philosophy of attacking the "UVA machine" worked under Casteen, but UVA now has a more transparent open policy. Unfortunately, Ms Sullivan hasn't taken advantage of cleaning out every nook and cranny - perhaps the new COO (who is responsible for the police dept) may continue to clean house. Time will tell.

It is a cop-out to say that the young women don't report their assaults to police because they already now nothing will come of it. Any woman who is raped and thinks she is helping the cause by remaining silent needs to go to therapy because the silence doesn't help her nor does it help the Next Girl.

Penn State is a different issue - many of those victims were children. They are now coming forward (60 Minutes aired a public interview with Victim #1 this past week).

Funny how you can never find a group of woman who can agree on anything, not even how to group together to address the topic of rape. We are our own worst enemies.

There you go again. Just because a girl doesn't go front page in the Hook it doesn't mean she hasn't come out amongst her friends and that she is in denial The latter and inability to speak about the rape that is damaging. So long as a victim is facing up to it and has reported it to the authorities she can recover. She doesn't have to do interviews and sell her story to satisfy your requirements. You are making general statements and know nothing about the details to make these judgments!

The Penn State victims are now adults and are coming out because they're writing books and giving interviews! That's their way and I respect their right to make that choice.

Listen up people. This is a "War on Women" in colleges nationwide, and yes UVA is at the very top of the offenders list. The following are two accounts that has women on college campuses alarmed, and rightly so. What is troubling is that there is a common thread between all the stories that are coming out which shows the deliberate and planned behavior by all of the colleges involved, each with their own style:

http://www.thecollegiateblog.com/2012/10/17/considering-sexual-assault-w...

http://host.madison.com/daily-cardinal/opinion/alumni-recounts-sexual-as...

So chica, how's your group working to get the rapist arrested?

tut tut tut......UVA is making news again......

http://womensenews.org/story/rape/121025/send-your-daughter-old-dominion...