Why she filed: Morgan Harrington's mom explains suit

The news that the mother of slain concert-goer Morgan Dana Harrington filed a lawsuit against the security company nearly got lost amid the tributes to the 20-year-old on the two-year anniversary of her disappearance. The $3.5 million suit against Regional Marketing Concepts Inc., doing business as RMC Events, was filed October 11 in Roanoke. While the president of RMC Events has declined to return our phone calls, the Hook caught up with Morgan's mom, Gil Harrington.

Why the lawsuit?
Gil: Questions remain about what happened that night, and this is about retaining our ability to ask those questions.

Why now?
Gil:
We really had been considering it, and the statute of limitations was beginning to run out.

Do you really blame the security firm?
Gil: It's more than just casting about for somebody to blame.

What about Morgan's friends [Amy Melvin and Sarah Snead] who left her to fend for herself?
Gil: It's always been about a murderer. I'm not going to throw Morgan's friends under a bus. I know that those girls loved Morgan, and Morgan loved them.

You've also refrained from criticizing the State Police for thus far failing to solve this.
Gil: Like it or not, we remain a family of sorts with the police. Families have their differences, but they air those differences behind closed doors.

What will a civil trial accomplish?
Gil: We may never have a criminal trial. This may be our only trial.

Read more on: Morgan Harrington

310 comments

Good for the Harringtons. I always believed that the JPJ security officer should've erred on the side of caution by calling in assistance for a person not acting quite normal at the door, even if he thought she was just another drunk student. What kind of a corporate policy would require an employee to allow a young woman to wander away into the dark in a distressed condition? Stupid.

I will never know the pain of losing a child but in my opinion this lawsuit will do nothing for the Harrington's. I really believe that the policy of no re-entry is a good one. Allowing folks to return to a venue could potentially lead to someone returning with a weapon, retuning under the influence of controlled substances, etc, etc. The list goes on. What happened is tragic. But a lawsuit in the case only benefits the lawyers.

Mr. and Mrs. Harrington I wish you both peace in your lives.

If (and I don't know ) the UVa made the policy of non re-entry and the security company was just carrying it out, the security Co. will say we don't make the rules we enforce them, and say the "empty chair" (UVa) is who you should have sued. But you might be able to take some depositions before the case gets dismissed. If the security Co. told the UVa we have to have to have a total non re-entry policy to control ticket sales etc. and (UVA) you have to do it our way then that would be different, but would UVA be dictated to and not set the rules?

If Morgan was black and poor this would have been a non issue from day 2. She did something stupid and didn't deserve to die because of it but her parents are turning more and more into pathetic whiny losers that need to get over their loss. I think that they have wasted enough of everybody's time on their problem and need to realize that murders happen every day and just because they're rich and white doesn't make them special!!!! If they go through with this frivolous lawsuit against a company that did nothing wrong for an absurd amount of money that will accomplish nothing but waste more taxpayer money then they should go to jail themselves.

I feel awful for the Harringtons. I really do. The Harrington's are putting blame on the security company because they didn't monitor their daughter? Why do they not put blame on Morgan's friends - the people who brought her there, were supposed to bring her bank home again. Where is the blame for them? Once they knew she was outside and couldn't get back in they should have gone out to be with her. She told them - I'll find my own way home. This when they were using her car.

Sorry, folks. I blame the friends, the murderer and Morgan, herself. You don't just go walking off in a strange city....

I'm sorry...I understand the parents' remorse over their daughter's killing. But this is a frivolous lawsuit. No re-entry policies are in effect for good reason, especially at events on campus. The person responsible is Morgan herself, who made the choice to leave and then to go with strangers. I hope her parents can come to grips with this fact. I am not diminishing their grief or the tragedy of her death.

It appears that they are doing anything they can to keep the attention on the case, and the lawsuit is the next step. I cannot imagine it has any merit--the company was executing an industry standard policy designed to keep participants safe. Notice you have not seen a wave to abolish policies like this--they made sense then and they make sense now.

The unintended effect may be to put her friends and Morgan's own behavior on trial. If the company is to show they are not at fault, a part of their strategy might be to show who is at fault, at least legally. Sadly, the legal fault may reside only with the murderer, and any negligence would likely be on the part of her friends or on the victim herself--I am not sure what good putting that on public display does, but the parents surely know that Morgan's behavior and that of her friends will be called into question once this hits the legal realm and they must have decided it is worth it.

The Harrington's may be unwilling to question the actions of Morgan or her friends in that light, but you can be assured that the defense attorneys for RMC will not--their 'only' trial may end up being a trial about her daughter's culpability and not, as it rightly should, on the actions of the only truly guilty party--the murderer.

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This is a multiple million dollar facility; and supposedly there is no video tape of Morgan from that night. I find this hard to believe especially if she walked out the front door; and was advised by the security team that she was not allowed to re-enter.

If the video cameras were turned off or not working propertly that night -- then the Harrington's deserve to know. If bringing a law suit gets the answers they need; then God Bless the Harrington in their quest to find Justice for their daughter Morgan.

I hope that if something ever happens to me; I have people willing to fight for Justice the way the Harrington's have.

I stood behind the Harrington's and their decisions until last year when they were having bake sales in her honor. It is a tragic thing that happened to Morgan that night. She was impaired..most likely of her own doing. I would be suing her friends. It is not RMC's job to babysit each and every concert-goer that shows up at JPJ. Their job is to keep the masses safe. This is a policy at every single music venue out there. They should be spending money no education programs and ideas for keeping other young women safe...spend your time looking for other missing persons. Suing a security company is not going to bring her back...or her killer forward.

The most likely scenario is that Morgan was intoxicated, that her friends knew that, and that they let her roam around outside rather than leaving the concert or scraping together enough money to buy her way back in. The facility has a long standing, very common policy of no re-entry. It's on the sign in the picture.

If Morgan was intoxicated and left the venue to possible get more intoxicated, it's quite possible that she could have done something to harm someone else's child if she had been allowed back in. A tragic series of mistakes led to Morgan's death. The very sensible JPJ policy of denying re-entry was not among them.

I would like the Hook to ask her what questions she has that have not been answered ?

Ask them publicly and let them answer publicly.

If they refuse then go to court.

At least then the public can know that the reason is something other than 3.5 million bucks.

To Cathleen: "I always believed that [Morgan's friends] should've erred on the side of caution by calling in assistance for [their friend] not acting quite normal at the door, even if [they] thought she was just another drunk [friend]. What kind of a [friendship] would require [friends] to allow [their friend] to wander away into the dark in a distressed condition? Stupid."

And Gil says, "It's always been about a murderer." Emend that: "It's always been about a murderer....and about RMC, it's about them too."

Let me get this straight, the Harrington's don't feel that Morgan's good friends should be held accountable for what happened; but they do feel that strangers working security at the door of a huge concert where thousands of young people, probably a good many in some state of intoxication, should be held accountable. I feel for their loss but think this lawsuit is incredibly frivolous.

@ jrp

I myself have wondered why the Harringtons have been quick to dismiss anything having to do with the friends, when it was quite obvious the friends could have prevented what happened by sticking with Morgan and/or coming out to join her once she got locked out, instead of leaving her to fend for herself on foot without transportation on a chilly evening in a strange town far from home. The only thing I can think of is that the Harringtons run the risk of a lawsuit by the friends' families if they start to hint at the friends' negligant role in things. "Defamation of character," libel, slander, etc. that sort of thing. They would either have to go all the way and sue the friends, or, keep completely quiet on the matter. I guess there can be no in between.

Having worked very hard to find and later find out what happened to their daughter the family faced missing on one of the tools available to them . They had to file now due to statute of limitations or chance regretting not taking that course of action . There are many obstacles in the suit to attaching blame against the defendant as there is no COD , TOD and only total speculation of events beyond 9:15 or so the evening she went missing .The H team should keep the suit on the rails to a decision,however,given the numerous patrons and staff who noticed MH was in distress inside and immediately outside the arena. The suit is not a cash grab as it will likely be a negative cash exercise for the family . It is more in line with a faint hope for information and justice by turning over rocks to see what might come crawling out .

These are awful cruel comments. I certainly applaud the Harringtons for having filed the suit. Perhaps now they will be able to get answers to what exactly happened that night. I don't care what Morgan Harrington did or didn't do. She was someone's daughter, sister, friend. She and everyone else in that building should have been in a safe/secure environement - alcohol or no alcohol. Why spend millions on this facility and not have the proper security and security cameras. Bless the Harringtons and their quest for justice.

boooo! I wasn't implying that the Harrington's should bring suit against Morgan's friends. I just think that it's ironic at least, hypocritical at most that they would have a higher expectation for RMC security to oversee their daughter's bad judgment that night than her own friends. Mom's rationale for bringing the lawsuit as the only court proceding that they might experience is ludicrous.

why was my comment deleted? there was no cursing or foul language ... what is going on? my comments were very much accurate and in line ... a shame that intelligent thought and good behavior continues to be punished by the uneducated. oh well ... ignorance is bliss. you people need to print what people say and no censor that which you don't agree with ... there was absolutely no reason to censor my comments. names were not mentioned, profanity was not used. the saga continues and Virginia is losing miserably. RIP Morgan.

litigation will force action and hold those who failed accountable.

I don't think this lawsuit is about placing blame OR getting the money...It's a stab in the dark to try to get information that the Harringtons should have been made privy to much earlier. If a girl is bleeding from the face, I don't care how angry or loud she is, you escalate to the UVAPD or call a medical professional to asess the situation. You don't throw an injured,inebriated patron of your venue (or the venue you're subcontracted to secure) out in the cold, rainy night to fend for herself.

She may not wish to throw the friends under the bus but you can bet the attorneys with throw the friends and Morgan under it.

And the picture will not be pretty. I

Where's the rest of this answer? Kind of leaves me wanting to hear the parts that are in addition to casting about for someone to blame.

The Hook: Do you really blame the security firm?
Gil: It's more than just casting about for somebody to blame.

Ok, I'm not really satisfied by this answer, either. Kinda' sounds like, "Well, we really want to have a trial, so...let's have a trial." or..."SOMEBODY is going to pay for Morgan's death, and we don't really care who."

The Hook: What will a civil trial accomplish?
Gil: We may never have a criminal trial. This may be our only trial.

That answer to the last question sounded off to me too, Truthiness. To be honest, this interview doesn't really sound much like Gil. She's usually very well-spoken and can obviously express herself in writing. I wonder how much the lawyers contributed to the answers.

when your local, state and federal governments fail you ... you litigate.
if there is nothing to hide UVA, JPJ, Ablemarle, then why are so many posts afraid for what the Harrington family may find?

it is truly uncanny how the "sketch" looks like someone known ...

Any clues, cosmo?

cosmo, if you think it's the short little H&H dude who doesn't really fit the description, turn him in for the $150K. (well, get in line -- i imagine hundreds of the worthless tips poor VSP has had to sift through were tips like that spawned by the big dummy with a blog)

cosmo, you're silly. We're not afraid of what the law suit might find; we're afraid it will have some unfortunate blowback on the Harringtons that will diminish their ability to carry out selfless activism, and will sully Morgan's reputation by releasing some unsavory details that make for juicy gossip but are really none of our business.

What do they hope to find? If there were videos the police would have seen them. If there were witnesses to her outside they would have been interviewed.

What facts are being witheld?

The facts being withheld and what the law suit might find is how much the attorneys will get should they win. 50%?

I'll guess the attorneys will take it on contingency, costing the Harringtons nothing except a portion of the tasty damages should they win. I'd think 50% is a good ballpark estimate. Could be higher....could be lower, as there will be good press coverage too for free advertising. It will be a win/win. Except for RMC. They're kind of hosed.

33 percent plus all expenses or she got ripped off!

The point is to put the incentive on the Law Firm, maybe Virgina is different. TN and CA. If you got a good case 33% is enough.

There are firms that give advances, we don't think it is ethical.

It is a surprise she gives any interviews as it relates to the suite.

Most Attorneys handle the verbiage, but she is unique.

I wish her the very best! She deserves all the information she can get,

I don't think anyone believes this is about money for the Harringtons, it will likely cost them as someone said. What is likely to happen is that just as much attention, if not more, will be placed on Morgan's unwise actions that night and the actions of her friends as will be paid to the actions of a security company that by all indications so far was providing industry standard levels of security to thousands of concert goers. Once the genie is out of the bottle in regard to who may have been at fault--the spotlight may shine in places that bring to light an awful lot of things that make the Harringtons and especially Morgan's friends very uncomfortable.

I agree shempdaddy, exactly. Best of luck to them, though, I know they are fine people.

JAB said "You don't throw an injured,inebriated patron of your venue (or the venue you're subcontracted to secure) out in the cold, rainy night to fend for herself." She left ON HER OWN...with signs everywhere saying "no re-entry," (not to mention having ticket stubs which state the policy and event staff which remind people as they leave) she was NOT thrown out!

what intelligent and unintelligent alike need to realize is whether you are for or against litigation is irrelevant. what will happen through litigation is that full transparency will be acquired. so the politics will go right out the window. if anyone is hiding anything, they will be exposed. you can use whatever rhetoric you like, but it won't change a thing. legal action determines outcomes in this country. it is a blessing and a curse, but solid results always follow whether you like them or not.

no one knows if she left on her own. all hearsay until litigation. this is really great for the Harrington family and long overdue. for all we know a local security agent or local law enforcement member was involved and took her away from the concert which would absolutely be
liability.

That's true, cosmo, but it will go both ways. Full transparency from everyone will be a good thing, and it might give law enforcement just what they need to find out what happened to Morgan that night.

cosmo, my last post was in answer to your previous post.

True, it could be that someone from security harmed Morgan, but what's more likely is that we'll find out she left the arena on her own and walked toward the bridge, where she was ultimately picked up and taken who knows where by who knows whom. Hopefully the RMC lawyers will have the incentive to find this part out.

@Ya think As far as I know, it has never been disclosed how she got outside the arena. She did try to get back in, so in my opinion not re-admitting her is a kin to throwing her out. They had policies in place for re-entry that allowed for circumstances in which the victim was injured, etc. They chose to turn a blind eye to a girl in turmoil.

Also,just because I think RMC is liable in this instance, I'm not skirting the issue of personal responsibility. We should all choose our actions with safety in mind. I wish we could warn others against the dangers of binge drinking (impaired judgment, etc.) and hitchhiking (not safe in today's world), and possibly recreational drug use. I wish we could warn others without being accused of "blaming the victim." However, there is a fine line, and we have to remember that Sketch murdered Morgan. I haven't forgot that either--A person should be able to walk down the street naked, throwing back a fifth of liquor, smoking a crack pipe and not have Sketch or someone like him murder them.

Why is litigation needed to find out what happened? Are we accusing RMC of stonewalling or lying to the cops? Cuz Rader seems pretty comfortable with the idea that what happened inside the arena is irrelevant, and I'm assuming that he feels that way because he knows enough about what happened in there. So it must not be a drive to get info or transparency. It's about someone taking the blame for this, paying for it.

I hope the statements made in this article don't come back to haunt the Harringtons. In this article, she basically says she doesn't blame JPJ, the friends, etc. just the man that killed her daughter. http://www.c-ville.com/index.php?cat=11101808092903167&ShowArticle_ID=11...

Good points truthiness.

yours, too, hook reader. I worry about the unintended consequences of this suit. Though I'm not 100% sure I understand what the intended consequences are, when it comes down to it.

It is hard to keep attention on a story in the current news cycle--people are diverted to other causes and cases grow cold. A lawsuit is one way to keep the focus on the case. Litigation brings transparency, as another poster said. That transparency will allow the actions that everyone took that night to become clear. It is true that we may learn things form RMC or law enforcement we did not know. We will also learn alot more about her friends actions that night(they will likely be served subpeonas) and we will learn more about Morgan's actions(how much she may have had to drink, consume, her state of mind, etc..) To this point many of these issues have not been addressed due to privacy concerns or sensitivity to her friends or to the victim. In litigation, these concerns will be irrelevant--alot of information will come out--my guess is that most of the NEW information will come from sources that have not faced scrutiny so far--Morgan and her friends.

Truthiness - i think Rader is out ... which speaks volumes.

Go away Harringtons! We are sick of you blaming everyone but the murderer and your daughter's bad choices for this tragedy. I don't want to go to an event at JPJ where they let people leave and come back at will. I am sure most people agree. I never been anywhere here or abroad that allows people to leave and come back, besides outdoor sporting events.

shempdaddy, isn't the NEW information just going to be new to us chickens? I'm sure VSP knows it all already, and it hasn't helped them solve the case.

Don't get me wrong, I'm licking my chops awaiting the salacious details of who provided the kids with the booze, what other drugs may have been consumed (either that night or routinely), what the fight was about (if there was one), why decisions were made not to give her the car keys (if it was discussed), where she said she was going, whether storming off on her own was something she did from time to time, whether anyone took photos that night, what she said to the security guards and ticket takers and others, how she was acting, who saw her fall and where. I don't think it will help solve anything but it is sure to fascinate.

cosmo--all the out-of-town internet conspiracy theorists are just itching for Rader's retirement to be because of Morgan, just as they've tried to connect any piece of local news to Morgan. You're not one of those, are you?

UMMMM MAYBE THE HARRINGTONS JUST WANT TO MAKE A TONNNNNN OF MONEY FOR DOING NOTHING!!!!

Truthiness October 26th, 2011 | 5:26pm

Yep, but the discovery and initial findings may not be public. Maybe even the trial will give little public info. With the location of the filing will The Hook be able to do as good as job as they have been this past couple of weeks?

The firm being sued may release some statements, but the judge may put a gag on it. We will see, just hope Gil finds what she is looking for.

Maybe someone with Virgina civil cases could help us out. I am sure The hook knows how things work and will do all they can. Maybe each case is different and it is up to the Judge.

Many of he witnesses that will be called will likely have legal advise too.

Truthiness October 26th, 2011 | 5:26pm

Yep, but the discovery and initial findings may not be public. Maybe even the trial will give little public info. With the location of the filing will The Hook be able to do as good as job as they have been this past couple of weeks?

The firm being sued may release some statements, but the judge may put a gag on it. We will see, just hope Gil finds what she is looking for.

Maybe someone with dealings in Virgina civil cases could help us out. I am sure The Hook knows how things work and will do all they can. Maybe each case is different and it is up to the Judge.

Many of the witnesses that will be called will likely have legal advisers too. They may move to keep things private. Who knows, will be interesting to see for sure.

That picture of Gil at the top of this absolutely pulls at my heartstrings. She is a beautiful, strong woman, but you can tell she's been crying. I appreciate her doing this interview, because the truth of the matter is she owes us NOTHING. She didn't have to tell us a thing, but she decided to answer a few questions for those of us following the case. She's a class act. I'd like to be one fourth the person she is--that'd be one hell of a person.

Thanks, Michael, that's a good point. We (the great unwashed who are interested in this case, but not really a part of it) might end up in the dark when all is said and done. Except maybe after the ruling is made. Though if they choose to settle, we may never learn anything.

Ok, we need a legal eagle from the Commonwealth to weigh in here on civil suits 101!

JAB said "You don't throw an injured,inebriated patron of your venue (or the venue you're subcontracted to secure) out in the cold, rainy night to fend for herself." She left ON HER OWN...with signs everywhere saying "no re-entry," (not to mention having ticket stubs which state the policy and event staff which remind people as they leave) she was NOT thrown out!

How do we know for sure that she was not thrown out? I have always wondered if maybe she was thrown out and maybe was even to embarrassed to tell her friends. Putting myself in her shoes, I am not sure I would want to admit this even to close friends. It would explain why she left a concert that she was looking so forward to. This is the type answers that the Harringtons are searching for. I totally support ever decision they have made.

Kelly, don't you think the cops know the answer to that question? If so, aren't they free to share it with the Harringtons?

Kelly, don't you think the cops know the answer to that question? If so, aren't they free to share it with the Harringtons?

I don't know what the cops know. I don't know if the cops were told the truth when the employees of the security co were interviewed. The absense of video from that night screams cover up to me.

In fact, I never recall hearing the Harringtons say "we can't get any answers out of JPJ or UVA or RMC." So there must be something else driving this. As Gil herself has said:
- they didn't want the option to sue to expire
- this may be the only trial they get
- the funding would be useful to support scholarships and other actions in Morgan's name

I don't recall her saying that she was seeking answers or transparency or to get clues as to whodunnit. We've all kind of made that up to give her the benefit of the doubt. In fact, the law suit is really a good old fashioned "Our daughter is dead and we think you are at fault, RMC, and for that you must pay" kind of law suit, not a clever ploy to solve the case. Consider this quote from the Roanoke Times:

The lawsuit reads, "As a result of the defendant's failure and refusal to allow plaintiff's decedent to re-enter the arena, or report her attempt to do so, plaintiff's decedent was left isolated and alone outside the arena where she was subsequently abducted and murdered."

Where JAB sees a tearful Gil above, I see an angry (and anguished) Gil. Maybe its' a new phase of grief. Her own words about leaving no stone unturned in order to find the slime that crawls out from underneath, and then hurling the stones speaks to where she's at. She's still suffering.

Kelly, do we even know that there's no video? Or just no video that has been useful in finding out what happened to poor Morgan? The way VSP has worded it can be taken to mean the latter.

Lying to the police is a serious matter. I don't think the police would rely on a third party's civil suit to take action, but maybe someone more knowledgeable will weigh in.

I imagine the police know alot more about the details of the actions of Morgan and her friends, including the more salacious ones. The trial will serve to bring more and more of these to light. Some of these may be shielded, especially if there is a settlement, but my guess is that alot more of it will come out now. This case has been covered as extensively as just about any, so the public knows quite a bit. The gaps in information released to the public seem to be in the actions of Morgan and her friends leading up to and during the concert--it is highly likely that information would come out in the trial. We may also learn more about the inside workings of security procedures at JPJ--but it seems alot of that information has been released already.

I would be interested to know what the criteria are for keeping information in a civil trial from public view. It is certainly more than just to prevent embarrassment, but I don't know what the specifics are.

Suppose she had just been robbed of her cell phone... would JPJ be culpable?

Suppose she had gone back to her car and cought someone in the act of steaIing the radio and they punched her.. would JPJ need to pay the hospital bill?

Supppose she had not been let back in and bought a lottery ticket and one ten million bucks... would jpj be entitled to a share of the loot?

You cannot have it both ways.

If she had gone through the drive thru at wendys and wanted to back up becasue she wanted another frosty and they told her to drive around and she got hit by a bus as she pulled out would that be wendys fault?

JPJ had clear stated rules and she was an adult.

Find the murderer and kill him.

Stop blaming jpj for having reasonable policies.

Kelly, you misquoted me. I have always wondered if she had been thrown out. Please don't put words in my mouth.

Kelly, you misquoted me. I have always wondered if she had been thrown out. Please don't put words in my mouth.

I don't know what you are talking about. I copied and pasted your post. Get a grip!

Kelly, you misquoted me. I have always wondered if she had been thrown out. Please don't put words in my mouth.

JAB,
I had to go back to figure out what the heck you were talking about. I copied and pasted Ya Think's post. Go there with him about being misquoted.

@Kelly, to be fair, the part about not thinking she was thrown out was added by Ya Think IN RESPONSE to me.You copied his response to me without Ya Think's name anywhere. It made it look like I wrote it, which is obviously not the case. I think you obviously don't know how to communicate on a forum or a comment section of an article.

Kelly, My apologies for the tone of my comment. I should not have been so rude. I hope we can get back to constructive comments on this Q&A.

Bill, I love your comments. I suspect the Harringtons have had lawyers whispering in their ears about the windfall they're passing up by not going after the arena. Perhaps the lawyers talked about justice and protecting future Morgans, but were secretly thinking of the fat contingency fee a win would bring.

At the point that a person has "left the building" are they still a patron entitled to security and other interventions such as medical attention available to ticket holders ? It appears that they may not have any more rights at that point in time from the event sponsers than any other person off the street .The no entry policy appears to have been well posted and it was reported she was advised of it prior to leaving . Generally liability is not present if the rules are clearly posted .People can argue the merits of the policy but it was what it was .MH has been reported to have joined up with one or two groups during and after migrating across the road from the Arena to an adjacent sports field/parking lot . She appeared to be networking on her own free will. Was security supposed to jump into these groups and retrieve her ? How do we know that she didn't develop sour grapes after meeting up with the reported groups and wouldn't have returned to the concert anyway ? If she indicated to these groups she was no longer interested in returning to the arena perhaps for the sake of her eardrums then the law suit's complaint would have been made redundant .

I guess they'll argue that even though Morgan had an alleged designated driver in her party (maybe it will turn out that was just something to pacify the 'rents), he wasn't professionally equipped to evaluate her state of mind -- even though presumably he was aware she had left the premises and knew she did not have her car keys. So he wasn't responsible for her safety, but RMC was because they're professionals. And I guess the lawyers will say that if even one person was ever let back into an event there, then Morgan was being treated unfairly. Or something like that. It will be very interesting to see how this plays out.

hook reader - just look what the mere mention of legal action does ... i guess we will find out now won't we?

cosmo, what has the mere mention of legal action done that's so telling? I've seen mostly thoughtful conversation about whether or not it has any merit. If you read comments after the WDBJ (Roanoke) articles you'll see that people in the Harrington's home town are less charitable. The Harringtons are welcome here in Charlottesville, and in real life (meaning outside the comment sections) I would say they are treated with tremendous respect.

cosmo, isn't posting here keeping you from researching the genealogy of a certain security firm owner of color so you can play connect-the-slave-to-AF? (hope you didn't buy into the laughable claim that this theory was either well researched or one year in the making; that was the biggest "Oh no, I've had 12 months to write this term paper and now it's due tomorrow" slapped together piece of garbage that was ever turned in.)

One of many of my lawyer friends who researches with me is of mixed heritage and was here when the the team came to my home to share information read the blogger's recent post as to an Asian cannot be associated just almost laughed his butt off.

His sibling is often mistaken as a pure black person. As he says it is so ridiculous that someone with Asian heritage would be precluded from familial DNA possibilities. She judges all by the color of their skin.Giving her enough rope and she is hanging herself.

How can Gil not disassociate with that blogger. Perhaps she has or is going to.

What a racist statement to print. VSP only says that a forensic link was established, does not mean that sketch was the last one with her,or that another person was with him.

Wonder what it is in her Familial DNA, not suggesting she did it, but wouldn't it be fun to see her genetic code, just saying.

Wow! SO the labs should only do familial DNA test on black men, what a suggestion!

Michael, I had to choke back the bile when the blogger blogged that the Harrington's suit proved that they agree that the start to the answers in this case begin with security. We know the blogger's take is that security is actively to blame -- they lured her out or evicted her (plus covered up things by erasing tapes, etc.) and then attacked her in the lot.

I don't believe Gil is saying that at all -- rather, she seems to be saying that she blames RMC for not safeguarding her distressed daughter. More evidence that Gil should distance herself from the crackpot and her crackpot theories.

I hear you, I guess it is only black security!

I wish I could tell what I know about her! She has issues BELIEVE me!
And people that she has to depend on are taking notes.
How responsible was it to have "sitemeter" show all of her posters. It is public, all anyone had to do was hit the icon.

I printed it 8 months ago, and her loyal people a few that you do not see posting just stopped. this was long after the defections of the more well known posters.These are the recently concerned ones that [you think about it] defected. You can see her frustration at the end of the previous article.

They all and many have screen shots of the posting that said " in moderation". We have them, so she was aware that werr looking and shooting. I wish I could show you. When someone hears that Gil ok's it look for it to hit the fan!

And, she crosses state lines! You know what that means! She cannot deny that she was told of inaccuracies by many! The Metallica t-shirt its displayed sure insinuated something didn't?

We got it! then her recent statement that you pointed out! Please Gil, give the yell for the charge!

It is exploitation and more to be seen when Gil gets to see what she has done.

Many are loyal to Gil and no other, so we try to wait and see for the good of Gil! But the time has has come for her to give the battle cry!

M.S. Better move fast as Boink "The Mad Dog of The Internet" and her Boinketts are openly conspiring to have LE go after anyone who disagrees with their opinions .

you all are hilarious ... i can smell the fear and ignorance from here!
justice will be served

did anyone confirm if Lt. Rader is still on this case?
i wonder why he left?

Might I respectfully suggest you might be smelling your upper lip, Cosmo?

Cosmo/Boink --- Rader was entitled to retire ,however,Boink believes he should not retire in "the middle of the case" . How would she know where the middle of the case is .She feels Rader should stay until the case is to the point of prosecution. If Rader followed her suggestion and the case never solved then he would be there on the job until he was over 100 .

ha you guys are so lost, but i do appreciate the respect.
Rader retired / left this case because it hits way to close to home and when the exposure takes place there will be quite a few heads rolling in that area. it will be extremely refreshing to see the system unlocked and true results achieved.

Truthiness ... where is your fear coming from?
i don't think i even mentioned anything with regards to slavery? but now that you mention it, i am sure we will learn more about this angle during litigation.
the real deal is that the scope of the civil trial really will be unlimited.
see... JPJA is affiliated with and on UVA grounds, no? therefore, security, university, local, state and even Federal law enforcement will be addressed ad nauseam.
wasn't jurisdiction an issue at some point? FBI interest? unless the judge in the case is bribed which could definitely occur in this day and age. positive results for the Harrington family and the law abiding citizens of Virginia will be achieved.

your unlimited imagination is only exceeded by your stupidity

Cosmo, Rader retired because he could at at age 50 like all state employees can. It has absolutely nothing to do with this case or any other case. Not sure where you guys are coming up with this stuff?? It is really no one's business when someone decides to try a new career.

And I wanted to add, he will be working on this case and all the others right up until the day he retires. Go Hoos!!!

cosmo, speculating here, but my prediction is that rather then blowing the whole allegedly seedy underbelly of JPJ security and UVA coverups and police incompetence wide open, this silly suit will end in an undisclosed settlement that will be rumored to be around $900K, and the H's will take it, because when it boils down to it, it's not about getting answers -- it's about the money and feeling the satisfaction of SOMEBODY going to trial to be punished for this.

@Truthiness - If only money could fill the void -- how naive of you to say .... it's about justice, about making sure this doesn't happen to someone else, about finding out the truth of what happened to Morgan that night .... it
s about putting peace back into the minds of the Harringtons. Have you ever had a loved one become the victim of a crime and while you are grieving have to listen to everyone who is not knowledgeable of the facts of the case publicly victimize the victim? the Harringtons endured this scenario for months and currently that's what is happening to Yeardley Love right now. Both girls are gone and people are wasting negative energy blaming the women for not doing the right thing. People are no longer responsible for each other. This lawsuit is the right thing to do in order to wake up the public, JPJ security, and your beloved UVA administration to address the issues, face the facts, accept responsibility, and change policy. Nothing will ever bring Morgan back - but there is no reason to play ostrich and allow what happened to her to happen to someone else. Good luck Gil and Dan - may your efforts save the next girl. the hell with everyone else who cannot accept that.

" it's..., about making sure this doesn't happen to someone else"

If that were the case, then there would be a campaign to educate young girls about the dangers of losing their self control to drug and or alcohol, particularly in public without having someone look after them. Like it or not, it is not safe really any anywhere in the world for young girls to wander around alone without having their wits about them. I really wish it weren't true, but sadly it is. Instead of that campaign, the Harringtons have chosen to file suit against a company that had other people, people who were acting within the bounds of reason, to look after. That is anything but productive and won't do anything to help anyone.

Ever think about this?

Logic says if internal documents are to be released on court order by the Security firm and JPJA [maybe UVA Police]. In fairness the Find Morgan forums and the other blogger may have to give all access to the security firm? Imagine that, all of the IP’s and names, multiple hats. Calling for depositions from posters, seems to be fair!

The Hook is a real newspaper and would likely succeed in keeping theirs, IMO!

It’s discovery. Happy Halloween to all who wear mask! This does relate to the article.

The truth can hurt! But the truth is what we want!

We are supporting Gil and the friends no doubt bout it! I know others do not agree, but it is free country and all is not black or white.

This is going to be interesting.
I say disclose all of it!

Frank Speaker October 28th, 2011 | 10:10am

Not to worry the co-chair of the "in moderation" support group.

Darn it, I do not agree with everything you, T or Pam say. Each is different and worthy of reading. I know you 3 don't agree with even most of what I believe or each other most of the time. But, I support your right to print it unless it incites violence, racism and/ or unwarranted insults. See I even agree with Bigfoot,
I like the big feller.

I heard from a source and I hope you will understand I cannot revel such privy information as my highly placed informants must be protected. Get this, Bigfoot's costume is shhhhh... Big Bird for Halloween!

Sorry feller I just had to scoop the rest, a sketch will be released if possible!

pam, I didn't say money would fill the void. GIL said that that this "funding" (her word) could be used to advance their causes: scholarship, Africa, helpsavethenextgirl, etc. And that they may never have a criminal trial, so this may be their only chance (it's the last quote in the story we're commenting on). She does also say that questions remain about what happened that night, and this may help them get answers. But it's only going to help them get answers about what happened in the arena. The friends will have to cough up what happened beforehand, and what was said on the phone, in the car, at the show. The police know what those who encountered her in the parking lot talked with her about, so maybe the Harringtons know that too. For the rest of the story, they'll have to catch the bad guy and hope he confesses, otherwise, those horrifying details will remain unknown. I'm sure the police have pieced together theories, but it's not the same knowing.

T and Pam nice post. Let me throw out a possibility, just hear me out please.

If and that is if: The same person last seen is the same person who planted the shirt several weeks later would it no be possible that the person would also post anonymously on the FM forum or the blogger's site?

I am trying to ask if this possibility exists than would the misdirection have not continued and the DNA also be planted.

Now is anyone saying that VSP does not think the friends fully cooperated with them? Because VSP has no reason to comment in an ongoing open case.

To a different point, this is civil court not criminal and it is not a DA. So no offer of immunity would be granted so I am sure that the friends can exercise their 5th amendment rights without inferring any guilt.

So, do you think that the security company will go fishing for the friends, maybe?

You want to find the truth you start where and when she exited. That is what VSP is saying. That is where you start in my opinion. Then you follow the trail.

Both of you have valid opinions.

I can tell you many just do not understand the reasons that VSP does not share all information with the parents of a woman over 18. So, the opinions by the parents are somewhat not the facts.

Maybe a Judge will look at the VSP file and make some choices if the State says it will jeopardize the on going case.

There are going to be many legal decisions. Usually neither party gets all of what they want. Then there MAY BE a jury and I am not sure in Virginia if you need anything more than a majority in a civil trial.

It will be interesting, but we the public may not know what the judge keeps out. It is not Florida and it is not criminal court.

Hate to brake it to you but officially VSP has not said there is a "Bad Guy" with Morgan yet. Bad girl, girls bad anything.

It has always been my opinion that a girl friend found the shirt weeks later while sorting laundry and displayed the shirt to send a message she was done with her now ex.

Would she be a monster or just scared to death about the horror of what she exposed. I would hope that she would come forward and get protection and maybe a deal. But that will not be apart of the civil trial unless there is link of her to an employee of the part being filed against.

Gil has to start somewhere. I wonder if the shirt had been washed, VSP knows.

My opinions only, I am not an attorney but I have stayed at Holiday Express.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlCLuIwuVgQ

I don't know what to make of the shirt. Still not convinced we know that anyone's dna but Morgan's was on it. It may be a red herring -- and not even a deliberate one. Maybe just accidental.

Some see a taunt to the police, some share your theory, Michael (I hate to say --including the blogger--want to rethink it, haha?), some see the shirt having been found by an unrelated party who ditched it once they heard about it in the news. Bloggy changes the date of the shirt find by a week in order to accommodate her theory that it was done to throw off a future search. Dunno. Any of those things could be right, or maybe there is some other scenario.

The Hook did an article on the vanishing jury trial, but it was more focused on criminal trials. Here's a snippet of a story on civil trials (from this link: http://www.vapersonalinjuryaccidentattorney.com/library/fewer-civil-jury...):

The cost of taking a case to trial is most likely the biggest factor behind the vanishing jury trend. Resolving a civil case by trial is often a big, expensive gamble. The costs associated with going to trial – trial preparation, filing fees, and compensation of court reporters, physicians and expert witnesses – can be very expensive. Cost, however, is not the only factor associated with the decline of civil jury trials. Clients often have to wait years before their case goes to trial which is unappealing to injured victims with piles of overdue medical bills. An increase in the use of other forms of resolution, including arbitration and mediation, might also play a role in this vanishing jury trend.

Here's a fascinating -- albeit dated -- article on civil jury trials. Back in 1992, plaintiff's won about half the time. I found this snippet particularly interesting, in the section called "The Role of Contributory Negligence:

"Pure contributory negligence
Six States use a pure contributory negligence rule that bars recovering damages from the defendant if the plaintiff's own negligent conduct contributed in any way to his or her own injuries."

Virginia is one of those states.

http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cjcavilc.pdf

Someone above asked about the choice of venue, and whether or how that benefits the Harringtons. I *think* (but am not sure) that RMC can object under Va. Code. Ann. §8.01-261, -262.

There are many possible scenarios for us, fewer for VSP for sure. That blogger has nothing to do with what I said I have always believed. Maybe the opposing one I stated that if and that's a big if the shirt was planted by the last person to see Morgan alive.

I pointed it out because I personally believe [my opinion] that there is three or more different DNA codes on the "T-shirt". Which none of them may be linked to sketch, doesn't matter. If the t-shirt is the only source of the sketch's forensic link then who's is the 3rd or 4th etc..? VSP knows if the forensics link was at both locations or which one if only one.

So her theory first of all is not original, not hers to begin with!
Her only original theory is that Morgan's shirt could not have contacted a Asian human being or someone else that contacted a Asian human from the time it was laid out by her and Gil till the time the lab got it. Now, how many people were at that concert? How many people could she have rubbed against in a crowd and believe me there are plenty of Asian students at Virgina schools. There are plenty of Asian Metallica fans and I am in no way saying that an Asian is more possible than anyone else. I am stating you do not say only one person knows or had contact with her, as I said before "bank on it"

What is ironic, is her claim that Pham was linked. Now just think about that for a moment. Asian DNA? The blogger is no more in-tune with this case than my pet dog! She is so out of tune that dolphins in the ocean are beaching themselves.

Before someone gets confused I am not saying a specific fluid,is that clear? Forensic can mean a lot of things.

The person would have to wash the shirt, wrap it then after all of that trouble handle it again to expose their DNA, just not feasible. Dandruff, a hair, a sneeze from someone on cold rainy night, 13,000 people, staff, in the bathroom, and the list goes on. Do you have any idea of how thoroughly those test are? To not find 3 or more samples is mind boggling and I am not a lawyer but I could win that argument in court with a pen and pad and decimal points.

Dino requested for someone to call, that was directed at a murderer.That was directed at someone else that knows more than he can prove at this point. You really believe that whole walk through was so he could say, he sketch you got it way with it 4 years ago and so far on this one "so, dude call me and turn yourself in". Please!

Nice work T! Very nice! thank you!

Michael (took me all this time to realize who T is -- so much for my sleuthiness), I was just teasing you about potentially sharing the same theory as B. Who knows, it could prove true -- even a broken clock is right twice a day!

I suppose it would very much depend upon the nature of the dna on the shirt. Hair (head or fringe) could be innocently transferred at a crowded concert or elsewhere. Same for mucous or saliva, as you said, from a cough or sneeze. Other bodily fluids -- blood, semen, waste -- would be more damning. But right now it's he said, she (couldn't), so if his lawyer (assuming he's ever apprehended and charged) could argue consensual sex, or some other kind of innocent contact. Unless he used a weapon that was/is recovered and tied to him, or confesses, or took pictures of her bloodied body with his or her camera and retained them, I'm not sure they'll be able to successfully convict him. The Fairfax case would have a better shot, but doesn't he have the right to face his accuser, who has since left the country? How will that factor in. Imagine the horror if he is finally located and walks.

And of course you know that's a broken clock with a capital B, not thee...

Even his simple possession of her camera or necklace could be explained away. "She wanted a ride, I gave her one. She didn't have any money so she gave me her necklace/camera as a thank you."

He can say "She was fine when I dropped her off at ____." (fraternity row or maybe the intersection of Rt. 29 and 64 if he's worried about his own pings).

Something strange as my friends that practice law say. The bracelet, its silver content and proximity to what may have been as defensive use of her arms, or offensive if she was aggressive. Does not seem consistent with regular evidence rules if had any DNA. Something just doesn't seem right. Maybe the necklace was lost during the fall or somewhere along the way. The camera, who knows?

But perhaps there was nothing at all on the bracelet and returned, seems strange. But, unless there was a wrist band issued by staff for the over 21 people or floor then not related to the civil case. Just strange, always has seemed to be.

We were talking about this last month, waving the thumb, smoking, then in the snow, elements, just strange. Think classic woman being assaulted.Wrist would be grabbed. Finger prints, knuckles, maybe bloody knuckles. Catch or snag a piece of clothing? Prints,silver, elements and possible evidence in homicide trial.There is or was a duplicate. Would be more important than the other stuff to Morgan, but just not consistent with classic random brutal attack.

But, I am sure.Gil has the bracelet solved in her mind. Just strange. Possible contact with car door, maybe it left an imprint on a vehicle if hitching was successful. Witnesses, head lights, reflections. Video, reflections, handcuffs. It bothers my friends tremendously. That would be the trophy they conclude.

My gut doesn't see a trophy taker. An explosively angry perp, yes, if Gil's suggestion of broken bones holds true, but not a trophy taker. I suspect the necklace could even be somewhere on AF on the fairly vast grounds. They couldn't have done a thorough search of all 700+ acres, could they? And we've seen no aerial photos showing such a search. Doesn't mean it didn't happen, but seems like we might have heard that tidbit.

Suppose the assault was somewhere near the edges of the property, or she was dumped off at the fringes or in the woods, then ran or stumbled or dragged herself towards that final field. Necklace could have been lost along the way., now trampled by cattle or tractors, or even picked up by a curious crow or raven interested in shiny things. Could have snapped off in the car and been found and discarded. Might not even exist in the first place.

I too wonder how his dna failed to be on the bracelet -- like you, assuming it was only returned to Gil because it held no value as evidence. Perhaps he disabled her with a swift blow as soon as she climbed into the car. Maybe she passed out on her own when she sat down in the comfortable dry warmth. Or he strangled her to unconsciousness before, not during -- a lesson learned from Fairfax. So maybe there was no struggle. Or perhaps the broken bones (or dna under her nails) tell the tale of a defensive struggle. We can only guess, but the M.E. and VSP know.

Or maybe she got a ride and she insisted on getting out, got sick and puked, or pissed them off and headed toward the farm from memory and there was no assault. I do not buy the crushed bones before death other than the chin. Never did, remember in real time she said beautiful bones. only later did she phrase it, I take it as dealing with shock, I have seen that. Just as the poems if taken literally with out understanding that is necessary to survive. She believes it, she didn't make it up, she is mistaken. Too much time I have spent over the years in Tennessee dealing with the same issue. To many animals, birds, the scientist can tell, but only after specific test can conclusive results results. Not for medical doctors or nurses. That is real science. There are bears I have a picture and the location is well in the female bear's marked territory.

Hair would be so important for TOD. Test, test and more test. Pathology, insects, thinks to detailed to mention. I will not believe till I see it, that only one COD is possible and conclusive. Only thing would be bullet, blade, ax or tire iron type.

If so, they would have found it or they would still be looking for it. If so, then VSP would have had to issue an alert to at least LE. By now, it would have been leaked. It is not just Virginia by any means, all rural areas have secrets, but not one this big. It is either so simple and Dino just needs that extra bit or there is nothing. Hope for loose lips, a tip. Pray there is not another girl, pray and wait. Maybe no killer, maybe a killer is dead.

Arrow, clean no bones an accidental hunting mistake. Lone hunter accident, no DNA would not touch anything but the arrow. No one else knows or ever will till the day he can't take it, maybe that is who Dino is talking to, pray it was an accident and try to forgive him with out so much as 4 years. Deal with him, believe him or her if they come forward and the shirt was from an earlier encounter. If , IF, if Dino, Rader, the science all support this it would explain why no issues of public safety. No proof either of who, NO PROOF, doesn't mean Dino doesn't know! Back to the bracelet, he was not trophy taker because he is not a killer. My opinion of what is just as possible as other theories, but it would explain all of VSP's actions. I had that for a long time, there is something about that silver bracelet, new moon. Would it be so horrible

Indeed, we're working on the words of a wounded mother rather than anything factual. I've never been one to read into the poetry too deeply trying to suss out facts -- she's hurt, she's trying to express pain and loss for which words are insufficient. I do think Morgan could have succumbed to the elements, or expired from an overdose.

As for TOD, I can definitely see insects narrowing that. The photos of the remains site seem to show decomposition fluids leaching into the soil; that tells a story, too, about how long she was there. The snow and temps will have to be figured into the mix, and the soil composition I'm guessing, but the experts will know how to calculate it. Pre-mortem, perimortem, and post mortem injuries will be apparent to the experts as well. But I do wonder if they know COD. Homicide is pretty broad. Is that manner of death?

Here's a good definition of homicide:

Columbia Encyclopedia: homicide

in law, the taking of human life. Homicides that are neither justifiable nor excusable are considered crimes. A criminal homicide committed with malice is known as murder, otherwise it is called manslaughter. A homicide is excusable if it is the result of an accident that occurred during a lawful act and that did not amount to criminal negligence. Justifiable homicides are intentional killings done in accordance with legal obligation, or in circumstances where the law recognizes no wrong. They include the execution of criminals in some states, killings necessary to prevent a felony or to arrest a suspected felon, and killings in self-defense. In some states of the United States, one may lawfully kill in resisting the unlawful invasion of a home or real property. Many states make a distinction between first and second degree murders. First degree murder is a homicide committed with deliberately premeditated malice, or with extreme and wanton malice. The conviction for first degree murder often carries a sentence of life imprisonment; in some states it can be punished by execution. Second degree murder is a lesser crime, in which a homicide is committed with malice but without deliberation or premeditation.

Silver bracelet, new moon? Not a werewolf (that's a full moon and silver bullets), so what does that leave?

Yes, in law school it is easy.

All Firetrucks are red
Not all red trucks are Firetrucks

All Murders are Homicides
Not all Homicides are Murder.

Good luck explaining to blogger's people.
C'ville and the surrounding county is very intelligent, but those people do not comment on the murder term issue. They don't waste their time. It is the few that are vocal that just misrepresent the whole area. They don't get the concept. Good luck with that one!

He did not take the silver bracelet. It was cloudy, misty and a new moon. Almost pitch black. Only something silver would flicker in the field when there so little moon light. Thus, the hunters, when we go. You see a limps out of the corner of your eye. The Buck's eye, they freeze for 1 second. Your heart is pumping fire the arrow right at the eye. Bingo, but this time it was the bracelet and a young woman and not a buck. Just a possible theory.

It also works for a pot farmer protecting harvest in October under a new moon, but the bracelet just did'nt fit and I believe they would bury a body, not leave it to chance if they had shop there for 3 weeks. Shovels would be handy for a grower. The camera, and necklace are earlier lost or left or taken.

An accident by a hunter, he would not go back unless he had to for appearances a hunter of deer, not of human. if so he is destroyed and we better look to the new recluse or newly homeless, turned to a bottle or worse. maybe even dying of guilt, slowly. If so get help! It is not a matter of spiting out a murderer, it a matter of finding the truth, and in that he will eventually find forgiveness and a life.

Look for this person, not the brazen cocky type.

Heck, what has been tied has not yielded much! Try it!

Let's say sketch is apprehended for the Fairfax assault, which from what we know seems more straightforward than Morgan's case. Victim is dragged off the street, beaten, choked, and sexually assaulted. Lives to tell. A sketch is created. DNA is retrieved.

What will they charge him with? Attempted rape? Sexual battery? Aggravated sexual battery? Assault and battery? Multiple charges?

She had shiny earrings, too. They're depicted in the Vance painting. Those would glimmer, reflect, too. And would be a head shot. Worse (for Morgan) then aiming at the bracelet. Yikes.

Depends on if he left something caught in a rape kit. If so RAPE!
No statute of limitations in Virginia, if I remember Ms. Stuarts reporting and follow ups on Ms. Seccuro.

As to Morgan, depends. State may deal on the 2005 rape to get a full confession on Morgan.
Honestly I do not know, seems that would be the State Attorney General's office. I am sure on that Gil would be of influence. I believe she wants to hear the words. Then, I just don't know if she could forgive and accept anything less than life, without parole.

I am just guessing, but Gil is unique! I would want to bee up for election orr appointment if Gil does not have some say.

That is for Virginian to decide! Not a Tennessean, cause if it was my daughter well there would be no trial, sorry, I know it is not right to say that, but I do not have the heart she has displayed.

Of course for the accidental hunting accident... she still needs to be on AF. We've never heard that she's familiar with it. Wouldn't that have come out by now?

Or the necklace. Maybe those two shiny links looked like the flash of a buck's eye. Nailed her right in the throat. Necklaces was tangled up in the arrow when the horrified hunter retrieved it. But wouldn't they have found a link or a little crystal at the scene? Of course we don't know if they did or not. Maybe they did and assumed it mean the bad guy took it. And maybe he did, only he's not so much bad as afraid to come forward. Interesting theory. But is it the guy in the sketch? Or is his dna just a weird coincidence from casual contact?

Hunting with a bow is like a religious experience. Even in pairs usually the key is to separate and know where you partner is. Easily done with only one person.

It is not like using a riffle, you are going to get nasty! The first arrow is just the start. The trailing or walking is usual not like a deer stand, at least in TN, AR and MS. I could actual picture it for the first time. It would crush anyone to accidentally shoot a human.Bow hunters believe in the highest values of life. It is hard to describe unless you know it.

And no gun shot to be heard. No one would ever know if you got the arrow. At least that is what someone that is not evil or a murderer would think. Run! Then puke you guts out.

I sure am not saying to bank on it, but is possible, and would explain VSP actions. Doesn't hurt that she didn't suffer a beating, or much worse prior.

But a good person with a bow, a human would die so fast the power and actually very little damage to the bones compared to anything else we discussed.

My heart wants it to be an OD or accident. My trained mind says maybe I just this one is different, like the bracelet, but sadly there is no duplicate.

If by chance, ironically he word long shot comes to mind that his is right.

If something similar to this happened and you are out there or know someone like that and hear of this, please call Dino. I know I will listen and the way your living now is not life. You could give peace to Gil, help a community and get a real life again. The pain needs to stop for every one!

You know, I do believe it was bow season. Black powder didn't start until Nov. 1 I think.

If the arrow hit her in the throat -- soft tissue only -- there might not have been any evidence left for COD. No nicked bones showing tool marks. Carotid artery. Bleeding out in minutes. No way to save her.

You're right. This person would have a personality change. Maybe sworn off hunting. But all the AF hunters are probably known -- if not to Bass, then to each other, right?

Let's say this theory is correct. Any idea what the charge would be for the person responsible, should they finally come forward? I assume they'd be charged with something. I guess the police would be mad (not that that's why you get charged, but still) that they wasted all those resources for 2 years. But it would be a relief. Dan and Gil would forgive that person, I'm sure, especially if he was remorseful and wracked by grief and guilt. It would be very uncomfortable to be keeping that secret. I bet it would be a relief to have it all over with.

But she still has to get to AF. That's a puzzle.

And if it's a combo theory -- someone picks her up hitch hiking, boots her out of the car near AF because she vomits or something, then she hoofs it through AF only to be felled by a bow hunter -- now we have two uncomfortable people maintaining their silence.

Not impossible, and certainly would continue her run of bad luck that night.

T. that is "homicide" think you gave the answer from your above:

"homicide is excusable if it is the result of an accident that occurred during a lawful act and that did not amount to criminal negligence. Justifiable homicides are intentional killings done in accordance with legal obligation, or in circumstances where the law recognizes no wrong."

There would be charges, not sure the term for it Virginia.

911 is a must. Leaving the scene of an auto accident is a serious offense. leaving the scene of a person being shot, that is an offense.

This person probably was questioned unofficially and passed the little did you notice anything strange that night or the next test. He would be the kind of guy anyone could bond with till that time.

If so that would be a crime of lying to an officer, then there is a sort of obstruction. If he has a good clean record and someone to love him maybe 4 years. But, if he spoke to Gil and told her everything and took counseling, the judge could suspend the sentence and keep him on probation for years.

Point is put it out there, if there is such a person just the fact that two people at least seem forgiving is enough for hope. I really feel if he gave the details that Gil would be able to tell if he was totally honest and in time Gil would forgive him.

People talk about stars alining October, pot harvest season, new moon, bow season, rain, 13,000 at a show, battery removed not being able to return.

Well, all but "bow season " did in fact happen. A perfect storm. It works, but for the sketch's DNA. So, know way he would remove a shirt after this propose scenario. So lets think. Some one offered her a fresh top. Then if that person who offered it had contact with the sketch, it is possible she never even met him. So he would feel confident but would be extremely angry at someone after the shirt was displayed.

So if the hunter, didn't have the shirt then..... who had access to the shirt, his DNA material or forensic link and what is the motive. So... think... at the time the body had not been found, so maybe it was girl friend that saw the shirt and did not know that she had died. perhaps he was out of town, sketch and the girl friend thought, hey I ain't no dummy.

This blond girl has run off with my man and they are playing house, she sees all of the community support thinking Morgan is alive she says I'll show you, miss shinny girl on the posters. Thinking all of this time her man is with alive shacking up with Morgan.

It works, hitchhiking itself can explain the trip, have you done it, not near is far as they make it sound, just he first exit out of town where you could pull of and drop someone off.

So, he question is did she tell anyone whee she desire to get a ride to? Find that out, VSP should know if it is that direction, bingo! Offer a deal to the girl friend, tell her she was involved in a murder after the fact just tell us where he is and we will protect you and he alone has to face the music on 2005. But not Morgan, he would probably take a deal especially if your info is correct that the 2005 victim has left the country. Gil finally gets to start to move on and the community heals. Awareness of kind goes up and Morgan did not suffer and her short life change 100'sof not more.

Will they open their mind, shot it down. If Rader says sketches sperm was found at the spot where the body was finally resting then that is the only way to blow the lid of of this theory. If so, VSP knows and I am not wasting their time. If not, it is time to get to work.

I agree that he'd be forgiven. It's a terrible scenario, but it's a better scenario than what they're currently thinking. In a way, I'm sure it would be a relief. There would be shock and anger and we'd all be yammering away on comment boards speculating about whether she could have been saved if he'd done the right thing, whether he's lying about the whole thing and it was really a murder, yada yada yada, but in the end it would settle into acceptance (for most) and maybe finally some peace for the Harringtons.

Now we still do have the problem of sketch...

Now this could explain it. Sketch has been under the radar [not Rader] for years so no felony arrest and we know not in the RSO list. So, he was out of town or clocked in a definite time stamped location.

Rader's team checks out the guy, but no record and air tight alibi. Because he was not with Morgan. Can't blame VSP, they probably had 20 possibles. Why go back over it till now. 4 years is along time for someone to change, but the girl friend just does not trust him.

Let Fairfax come into the area not focusing on the time line, just the shirt displayed with a fresh approach.

Rader's team would not even request a warrant for DNA test, or even try to find DNA on a can or container, because he had a verifiable alibi and it is true he could not have done anything to Morgan.

Very, very interesting theory. I can't imagine that VSP would fail to give the tip to Fairfax though -- would they? I imagine Rader would love for his team to at least publicly solve SOMETHING connected with this case, even if tangential. But maybe they don't have the bandwidth to pursue things outside the scope of Morgan's death.

Very interesting. I'll chew on that one awhile, along with AIC's recommended approach to solving Morgan's crime. Both good food for thought....

Very good outside-the-box thinking, Mr. Sutton! Well done.

Raders team knows the three big things we don't in this scenario.

1] was there any of sketches sperm at Fairfax and /or the final resting spot for Morgan prior to recovery.

2] was there any evidence of anything as a weapon blade, bullet, ax, shovel, etc. Have they thought about the arrow?

3]the condition and samples or links to sketch or maybe more and was it cleaned in the many weeks prior to display?

Rader knows more that I know, so I'm good. He says interesting but not interested. He does nothing for what ever reason.

He will review the notes and his team is not going to be second guessed by me.

Thanks T. thanks a lot for your time an open mind. I could care less who finds the truth as long as Gil, VSP and later down the road we do.

Maybe only one part of the assertions turns on a light bulb in the lab or Dino's or some local citizen. if so, today was worth it, been a while with out feeling so good about the prospects, now I see a glimmer, like that silver bracelet under an October new moon.

I hope the friends are living a good life, I am sure Morgan would want them too!

Just remember they are human too, once weren't you?

Peace Amy and Sarah!

God's speed Gil! There is always a glimmer of hope if you seek the truth!

Someone please call DINO, just say I need to talk.

Take it easy down there big feller!

AND HOW BOUT THOSE ST. LOUIS CARDINALS TEX!
When you started playing ball, did they have trains? Pop corn, had the hotdog be introduced to America? Cracker Jacks?

T, Don't know if you drink but if you do have one on me send the bill to Nolan Ryan's TEXAS GRANDFATHER!

lol, i take a drink every time gramps brags about his many exploits, like helping alexander graham bell install the first telephone. (now you know my secret identity is lindsay lohan!)

michael, you were doing alright there for a while, now you're slipping back into full on s jones lunacy. get a grip!

He's doing alright Jenn. They're just talking about one of the two old fools they see posting somewhere else. I get it.

Right on the money, hook reader

Now one challenge to the bow hunting theory would be the fact that -- being a moonless night, and rainy at that, it might be hard to get enough ambient light for her necklace, earrings, or bracelet to give off a brief glint. I wonder in October, given falling leaves and all, if light from the nearby roads (are there street lights on Red Hill Rd?) or houses would reach that field where she was felled. I'm assuming we think the hunter didn't move her -- just took the arrow and fled the scene.

Also, would a hunter be hunting at night in that icky rain? I suppose hunters are game (pardon the pun) for all kinds of weather.

Those gold earrings in the Vance painting look like they are dangling. They'd have a lot of movement that could catch the light, and are brighter and shinier than that dull bracelet. If he aimed for the earring, he could have caught her right in the carotid artery and right through the throat (say he hit her sideways), entirely missing any bones so not leaving any marks or chips.

But if it didn't go through bone or the tough hide of an animal, just the soft tissue of her neck, would it have exited her body entirely? If so, then he's got to search for it in that cold dark rainy night. That's a harder feat than just plucking it from her burbling corpse (i'm thinking her death, while it might have come relatively quickly, would still be somewhat lingering. She'd still be warm when he got there. Maybe he waited with her until she was cold and clearly gone. There would be so much blood in that scenario, though.

Could have hit her elsewhere. If he thought the necklace were the buck's eye, then he could have hit her in the chest. Could have pierced her heart, missing ribs and spine. Freaky things like that happen.

Truthiness, I don't know for sure, but I think hunters usually set up before dawn then wait until first light to shoot. I think the AF hunters were known to Mr. Bass, and were appreciative of him and responsible about their hunting rights. Unfortunately for land owners and responsible hunters, poachers and spotlighters are common in rural areas. They'd be the ones out there at night.

Michael, you're right. I'm not sure there's an actual source for the idea that the Fairfax victim has left the country -- just a rumor at this point. But I do recall reading in a news article -- which we must also take with a grain of salt, given the ongoing sloppy reporting in this case -- that the source of dna in fairfax was blood from her having fought back. He didn't complete the act -- not that fluids couldn't have been present just from the attempt. (That's why I was wondering about what charges he would face, since I'm not sure what constitutes rape as opposed to attempted rape or sexual battery, or if they're treated differently.)

My hunch is that he'll get a relatively short sentence for Fairfax, but his connection to Morgan's death will be unprovable. If they're lucky (and the next girl isn't), he'll get tripped up committing his next crime, and get a decent sentence for that on top of his Fairfax sentence.

Readers are encouraged to pay close attention to Truthiness' Oct. 29, 1:11 post, re: contributory negligence.

Virginia is one of those states.

spellchecker, indeed -- I guess that will be the gateway to all the fascinating stuff coming out about what went on with Morgan and friends that day, what intoxicants were consumed, etc. Won't be pretty.

IF the case isn't thrown out outright based on contributory negligence. The state won't bother trying a case that's unwinnable on its face.

It may be down to 5 states, now, but it looks like VA is still one. This is a wiki answer (so it's ok to be skeptical)

Only five (5) states still recognize the pure contributory negligence rule, which says that a damaged party cannot recover any damages if he is even one (1) percent at fault.

Read more: http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_states_are_contributory_negligence_states...

THIS is from 2010:

Contributory Negligence is the legal doctrine in Virginia which provides that a plaintiff’s negligence, no matter how slight, that contributes in some way to her injuries, no matter the extent of the negligence of the Defendant, bars the plaintiff from recovery for those injuries. Most states have the legal doctrine of comparative negligence, which says that if both the plaintiff and the defendant are negligent, then you compare the negligence of each to determine the percentage of the plaintiff’s losses that the plaintiff can recover.[1]

The law of contributory negligence in Virginia continues to evolve. Many of the harshest aspects of the doctrine have been further clarified by the courts, in ways that show the doctrine is more narrowly limited than was previously thought. [read on at link]

http://www.allenandallen.com/blog/contributory-negligence.html

Precisely, Truthiness; data gathering rather tha ultimate venue, corporate or agency culpability. (The issue of contributory negligence as it impacts this case was suggested over a year ago.)

But is it only for torts? Is gil's suit a tort claim? We really could benefit from someone with legal know-how weighing in here....

Virginia might be one of four;

Q: What is Virginia contributory negligence?

A: Contributory negligence is a form of law in which an injured party may not have contributed to their injuries in any way in order to recover compensation for those damages. Virginia is one of 3 states and the District of Columbia that still follows contributory negligence laws.

This lady in Virginia won $3.5 million (recognize that number?) from a jury verdict based on an allergic reaction to children's Motrin. Since Virginia law prevailed (that's where she lived), and the jury found she was negligent in not reading the warning label, in continuing to take it after she started having a bad reaction, and not telling the doctor she'd been taking Motrin, that whole $3.5 million was wiped out.

https://www.judicialview.com/Court-Cases/Product-Liability/Jury-Contributory-Fault-Finding-Wiped-Out-$3.5-Million-Motrin-Verdict//37/13486

T: hook reader is so correct, a poacher is more likely, but unfortunately a little less likely to exhibit as much remorse than a permitted hunter.

Would be used to getting in and getting out.

I remember a debate at university, something like this.

Man A] brings a unloaded illegal firearm in, says it has a hair trigger lays it on the table in-front of man B]

Man B] loads the gun, later an argument takes place and Man A is dead due to gunshot to the head.

This was a debate so we listened to different questions with the scenario.

One position strongly debated was this:

Man B] would be guilty in criminal court of murder 2nd degree, but that in civil court, man A's family would not collect damages for injuries from anyone due to the fact Man A brought the gun in.

So this suggested that Man A's family could not ask for damages from: gunsmiths, the man who sold the gun, the manufacturer and anyone.

This was a debate not a trial, but the Virginia law is widely debated.
Doesn't really matter what others think, it is Virginia's Law and this real case is in Virginia.

Does EMC have 20 days to file a motion to dismiss? If so, is today the deadline?

I mean RMC. Is their filing due today, based on the 10/11 civil suit filing?

Frank Speaker - your comments only endorse my perspective. how did the civil war turn out for you? thanks for proving my point(s) time and time again!

Really? A law suit on what grounds? Your daughter made bad choices and tragically had to pay for them? Too bad this is the basis for parenting in so many households. It's always someone else's fault isn't it.

I'm sick and tired of people trying to blame the girl for what happened. Do you even know what sexual predators are? What they do? Do you know what your life means to them, what your children mean to them, what the nicest and prettiest girl in town means to them? An hour of "getting off." That's all you are to them. They'll use your body, dead or alive, to "get off," then drop you in a dumpster once they're done. Then they say "Neeext! "

So who's their next victim? YOUR kid? You better hope that the Harringtons prevail here.

WRT the Harringtons, I cannot begin to claim to know what are their motive(s) for filing the recent lawsuit against RMC, nor is it my place to assert same. For reasons, however, it might be easy to surmise that they did not do this for personal monetary gain. It might also be reasonable to suggest that their motivations included both a desire to keep Morgan’s story alive (to have it fade away to the nothingness of unsolved mysteries would be abhorrent to any parent in a similar situation) and an effort to gain additional information not already uncovered about the events of that fateful evening. Absent new information the case stalls and the Harringtons have no more to go on than they do today. I cannot begin to imagine their continued and well-placed grief, frustration and anger at the perpetrator(s) of this crime.

Whatever their reasons, they are their own. Readers are cautioned to remember that individuals rarely operate out of simple motive; rather, in most instances the reasons for our actions and behaviors are myriad and complex.

Stephen blames the victim for causing the crime. That's so Charlottesville of you.... When Lunsford ousted Camblos she said she wanted to clean up Albemarle County and make it safer and provide better services, but even she doesn't prosecute UVA sexual assault cases. Maybe she also feels that the victim is always at fault.... The only way to make Charlottesville safe is for Charlottesville AND Albemarle County to rise to the occasion, roll up their sleeves, and do the hard work of prosecuting criminals, not the victims! UVA certainly is not going to admit fault - they are the money makers, the lifeline of this area.... and everyone bows to them. Only a handful of parents who have had kids become victims of crime work in YOUR town work to to clean up your YOUR town -- the locals certainly don't even try.

@Steven
You say "Really? A law suit on what grounds? Your daughter made bad choices and tragically had to pay for them? Too bad this is the basis for parenting in so many households. It's always someone else's fault isn't it."
This statement tells me everything I need to know about you. I can hardly believe anyone would really say this and mean it. I ask myself if it is just someone "fishing" I hope it is, for your sake. Lets say you really mean what you say. How do you know Morgan "made bad choices", how do you know "she had to pay for them" You have alot of explaining to do. For all you know (unless you are/or know the perps), Morgan had a beer or so, like everyone else, and was stalked from the beginning, targeted outside, and inside the arena. For all you know (again, unless you really do know) the murderers planned to abduct her, drunk/drugged, or sober, and easily carried out their plans because they could. Because they were your friends in LE/security. The Harrington's intend to find out, and I am so glad they do. About time someone had the guts to stop criminals, either in LE/security/intelligence, wherever they hail from. FYI, the Harrington's have a huge number of people on .
their side, including people in other countries. We all want to see justice in this case, and others. We all want the lowlifeunderrockscrawling to be swept off the face of the earth, yesterday. Be warned, your days are numbered. People are fed up. We are all fed up with this stupid blame the victim mentality perpetrated by criminals and their lawyers.
((((I often ask this question. How did a baby dress/act/provoke some sadist sex offender into taking her life)))) by BEING A CUTE LITTLE BABY PERHAPS?
Ohhhh, I would so like to tell you what I really think of you, but am worried it would not be published, so will just have to content myself with being nice.

Bond: we don't care what you think of Steven. Or clowns!

Morgan was a young woman not a baby or girl.

We know that she did not ask for it or deserve it.
Have you not learned anything?

We are not so blind as you, we do not suggest you reflect all of the views from your claimed country. So, please what is your point, conspiracies?

We are all shuttering in our boots that the all knowing Bond that does not print his/HER real name will somehow express we are not worthy of being on a page with BOND!

One thing is sure, Gil did not file the suite for your approval. BANK ON IT!

I am attempting to picture all of you "shuttering" in your boots, Puss! Did you find the camera?

The hunting accident makes about as much sense as the slavery angle. Occam's razor. A known (yet unknown) rapist's DNA is found in connection to a homicide victim. It's not rocket science here, folks.

When you read A Texas Grandfather's posts do you hear his cretchity old voice in your head? I do! He is one of the biggest idiots on the Internet stating his opinion on various things as irrefutable fact. He views the world in black and white with no gray in between.His way or the high way. Now he is an art history buff interpreting Jane Vance's painting. He is one of the biggest jerks on the Internet. He is the epitome of full of ****!

Newsflash......Ocam slit his own throat with that razor. Thank goodness we do not have to listen to the outdated tired old Ocam BS anymore.

Looking for a ride led to an encounter with a bad stranger who had attacked a woman at least once. For that reason, the suit isn't likely to answer whodunnit.

parakeet you are so right and so funny! and how about that george? AicBond, aren't you the one who always gets comment sections shut down all over the internet? Is it you and cosmo? You guys give yourselves away. No one here has been blaming the victim, just saying that the courts may find there is a percentage of contributory neglegence here and it will work against Gil's interests. More power to Gil, though. I personally hope she gets at least some answers out of the suit because this has been two years of hell for her.

As many have said above, it is hardest to solve a random crime when the perp is unknown except for the dna match to one other random crime. It is obviously hard to place this Fairfax guy in Charlottesville and on Anchorage Farm...we have a lot of really good and capable investigators on the case, we may just have to be patient and let them do their work.

Pam, do you have some other personal beef with Charlottesville and UVa?...some of you are pretty transparent.

Good point Bob Dobbs.

I wonder if they should have filed the suit in Fairfax instead of their hometown. Cville is already well aware of the incident; I imagine Roanoke is, too. Maybe keeping the flame burning in Fairfax would help prod some memories of the2005 incident. But maybe the guy's not from either place.

Pam and all those out there who are so pissed at Charlottesville and UVa, I can't imagine there is a soul in this town who doesn't feel sorry for the Harringtons. Most have probably never read past the paper version of the Hook,, or have ever heard of findmorgan.com or the crime blogs. It's more than just some internet story for the people who live here, so you and the others will only drive yourselves crazy trying to place blame on the locals or UVa...you are non-existant to most.

all you haters ... this suit will probably end up locking up most of your family members, eh?

This suit won't end up locking up anyone. It's a civil suit.

like i said ... we will see.
even OJ eventually got locked up as a result of a civil suit ... it took a little longer, but justice was served.

OJ went to jail because he committed a robbery -- it had nothing to do with the civil suit.

I bet that geriatric Texan was one of the engineers working on the BP Oil spill...that would explain so much. This man is beyond obnoxious in expressing his own opinions about everything from race relations to misogynistic rhetoric. I have some news for ye gramps, YOU DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING! Your writing skills are sub-par, so quit trying to give advice on how to communicate. You suck at it. You couldn't be cogent if your life depended on it. While I'm at it, women don't always apply make-up to please a man or look "more attractive." They do it because a lot of them enjoy it. They do it for themselves not for anyone's approval. Secondly, not all artists begin a painting with a certain goal in mind. Some artists, hold onto your dentures now papaw, LET THE PAINTING INFLUENCE THEM! You've probably filled your diaper after reading all these revelations.

Also, I'm sick and tired of out-of-state individuals (not talking about family members of crime victims just general spectators and malcontents) mocking our communities, our universities and our VSP. Just google I-45 victims, and you'll see the MULTIPLE UNSOLVED MURDERS in good ol' *gasp*..........TEXAS. There are unsolved crimes EVERYWHERE!

cosmo, how vast is the network of conspirators that you think did poor Morgan in? Couldn't it be just one lone man who's not even affiliated with charlottesville?

Just follow up and inquire from a real Virginia Bow Hunter needed.

1] new moon is no eclipse
2] Archery Deer Seasons
Early Archery Season
October 1 through November 18: Statewide
3] Hunting is allowed 30 minutes BEFORE stated sunrise
4] Either sex deer during Archery season
5] no need to wear reflexive clothing when Guns are not allowed
6] Cross bow is regal with special license
7] Antler-less deer may only be taken during designated either-sex deer hunting days during the archery season(s), muzzle loading season(s), and firearms season.
8] The bag limit for deer shall be two a day, six a license year. Of the six deer limit, no more than three may be antlered deer and at least three must be antler-less deer

Real Virginian Bow Hunter or game warden please review. Not sure about all of this and counties may have more regent rules.

VA 2009

Early Archery Season
October 3-November 13: Statewide

Late Archery Seasons
November 30-January 2:

In all areas west of the Blue Ridge (except Clarke and Floyd counties and on private lands in Frederick County).
In the counties (including the cities and towns within) of Amherst (west of Rt. 29), Bedford, Campbell (west of Norfolk Southern Railroad), and Nelson (west of Rt. 151).
On the Chester F. Phelps WMAand on National Forest lands in Frederick County.
December 1-January 2:

In the cities of Chesapeake, Suffolk (east of the Dismal Swamp line), and Virginia Beach.
December 14-January 2:

In the counties (including the cities and towns within) of Floyd, Franklin, Henry, and Patrick.

Virginia Bowhunter Survey Participants Needed
In 1997,the Department initiated a statewide bowhunter survey to obtain information on bear,deer,turkey,small game,and furbearer populations. Deer data collected provides important information relative to deer population trends,adult sex ratios,and recruitment. Approximately 300 archers have participated in the past few years. The Department would like to increase the number and distribution of cooperators across the Commonwealth. If you would like to participate in this survey,please indicate your interest and send your mailing address to mike.fies@dgif.virginia.gov. Participants will receive an annual survey form to complete during the early archery deer season and a copy of the results after they are compiled. The Department appreciates your interest and cooperation.

Urban Archery Deer Seasons
During this season only antlerless deer may be taken.

Did RMC do anything wrong in enforcing their policy? That's the question, I imagine. I can see the reluctance to let her back in, since she left with the full understanding that she could not reenter. If she seemed inebriated or odd, letting her back in could be a liability -- she could hurt herself, hurt others, OD -- then she'd be RMC's problem, whereas outside, she's a girl with a purse and a cell phone and options, at least at the time she was trying to regain entry.

That woman cited above who had the $3.5M motrin verdict wiped out due to her contributory negligence also lost her appeal. Maybe the Harringtons will take on that old Virginia law.

today - of course it did, the civil trial forced the robbery which got him to jail.
it is like when they got Al Capone on tax evasion.
Virginia can't protect its women and it is a true shame considering all things.
Also, JAB, Texas is 5 times the size geographically and has approx. 25 million people.
Virginia has approximately 8 million people in it ... there is no comparison.
just another example of the continued ignorance. this is not an attack on the good people of Virginia (really-you know who you are) just your infrastructure is archaic given how much money is pumped into the state each year. CIA, FBI, UVA, VSP, JPJA ... unbelievable amount of wealth and investment and girls just disappear. and yes, i know, CIA and FBI are federal, but we all know the federal government is atrocious right now and does not care about constituents. the USPS is broke, Fannie May and Freddie Mac are broken and corrupt ... is there really anything that the federal government does that works anymore? oh defense, right ... remember 9/11. never forget. all will be revealed. RIP Morgan.

J.R. "Bob" Dobbs - don't make this out like i am saying there is a grand conspiracy. all i am saying that after 2 years with no results, the system needs to be evaluated and analysed. any type of conspiracy would be based on community involvement where local law enforcement / security turns the other cheek or loses information / evidence or is actually directly involved in some way / shape / form ... or the good ol' boy network is covering for their own kind. it just seems very obvious to anyone outside of Virginia that UVA and VSP have done something to inhibit progress. i would think it would be even more obvious and apparent to those close to the situation, just more dangerous considering what they did to that kid who stole the cop car.

It's really hard for anyone to solve a random crime. Most crimes are solved because they are committed by people who know each other. Morgan's crime likely involved a stranger, and he may even have come from outside the area -- maybe even from outside the state. That leaves law enforcement dependent on someone coming forward to say they know who did it.

But if no one knows who did it -- say, if this stranger acted alone, keeps to himself, doesn't brag about his exploits, and doesn't do anything to raise red flags to those who know him -- it's going to be impossible to find him unless he strikes again and leaves more dna and more evidence.

The police are banking on it being someone who knows Anchorage Farm, but if it turns out he just happened upon it, or staked it out in advance as serial killers have been known to do, that's a huge problem.

Cosmo--we're not comparing state sizes, but if we were you'd see the per capita murder rates were pretty much the same everywhere. 40% of homicides go unsolved. Virginia is not some heathen state as many others try to make it. It's a great place to live and moreover, a safe place to live. Be aware of the crime rates, be an advocate, etc. but don't try to present Virginia as something it is not. This "hain't" deliverance, cosmo!

Cosmo and Bond are just a couple of Boink zombies . Incapable of rational thought while spewing her hate generated witch hunt diatribes against individuals and institutions galore . I just looked over there today got a real laugh . She claims anyone posting on sites other than hers are BS posers and that she is open to other opinions . That is rich as the essence of her site is to scavage off Nancy Grace and ride it for dollars .These zomby Boinkettes and Boink claim all of Virginia and relevant agencies are deliberately preventing progress of solving a dispicable crime. That crew tipped the culprit off by meddling in release of the Fairfax connection . They are not doing much in the way of making a sympathetic jury pool in the event of charges . Attacking the state of Va,cities,individuals,farmers,universities ,law enforcement agencies ,out of state folks,US national agencies etc etc might not be a good idea . Waging war against the innocent could be counterproductive .

“We really had been considering it, and the statute of limitations was beginning to run out.” An earlier title “It is War”.

Gil with all of our support is fighting a war on many fronts, in my opinion. Certainly the intellectual comments on these two articles have been way above the norm for such a subject.

I am not from Virginia, and I do not kiss butt. I have been going to Virginia starting in 1975. There are only 5 states in my biased opinion that are so beautiful that it is impossible to rank. Virginia captures everything in the diverse, beautiful, such well read, pride filled as well as totally objective people on this earth.

The land is so hard to explain, no need for me to ramble on. Where would one start, mountains, shore, rivers…

Gil’s suit [yes, I can spell] is more than what meets the eye.

So, it is just an honor to try to help, even if it is miss-understood. This is not just a Virginia tragedy, and anyone that suggests that Virginia is below the curve on love, respect, intelligence, art and perseverance is sadly mistaken.

I want the truth; I want Gil to know the truth. The journey for her must be at her pace and come from within, on her terms. I personally do think that there is a federal possibility that has no statue of limitations. That is for later if the subject of this article does not satisfy Gil.

Be glad: sweet, yet rustic, kind, yet wise, Virginians that your judges are American and in Virginia what a Texas judge does to females would be a crime against nature in your state.

Lets all open our minds, if there is anyone out there that thinks their view is the only view to be possible, then maybe a newspaper in Virginia is not the best place for you.

ANGRY PARAKEET November 1st, 2011 | 1:10am

All is not as it seems, not that many would have screen shot the "sitemeter", Maybe just maybe the very people that kept it pubic did so for a reason.

Do not bet that the Texas hat is unique or that there are not many hats that can be worn by different people.

All in time in the proper court!

The real name of Texas is…

BAJA OKLAHOMA !!

NOT AN ORIGINAL but is anything from a sight were clarity left a long time ago and is on legal record!

Based on where Morgan was found and the elevations/gates/barb wire and other structures on AF, I believe he used an ATV and shot right down the powerlines off Red Hill.
B

A new theory, so it is a Black non Asian ancestor of slaves, that worked security that dives a ATV and used a weapon that shoots projectiles.

Bigfoot, I didn't link it. You and the Editor have been very kind to me. But, read it for yourself.

Gil, pleaseeeee! Have your attorneys look at that site. Pleaseeeeeeeeee!

That is how she ended up there but how she was discovered was even stranger than that fiction believe it or not . Boink claims the famous fire "illuminated" the her in the night . Mr Bass saw this" illumination" according to Boink and he then proceeded to the location the next morning . Therefore,according to Boink all the accidental discovery information the next day as provided by Mr Bass was just a big fabrication .She doesn't explain how she became aware that Mr Bass saw this "illumination" . Surley anyone who could spin such a tall tale should be capable of glibly inventing a bigger lie explaining how she became aware of all of this .

I think "shot down the powerlines" means "rode the ATV in the clearing between the power lines to reach the remains site." Now, recall that earlier theories involved a hunter transporting the body by boat in the little Hardware River, or ditching the body on the banks of said river in the (purely imagined) black tarp, which then floated up to the remains site due to rainfall. This theory is at least as good as those.

Also not sure how her theories fit together -- the slave descendent is sending a message to the farmer or the farm or something, BUT also doesn't want the body to be discovered. But it needs to be discovered to send the message. Confused thinking over there.

JAB - "I bet that geriatric Texan was one" Don't you know that is actually Boink on Crime herself, posting under one of the many hat's she uses?

michael sutton - " Based B" Better be careful - not linking or sourcing quotes from Boink, she'll sic her lawyers on ya!

michael sutton ... i think you are wise. what do you thing really happened and is really going on?

Can someone explain the slavery connection to me?? Thanks in advance.

Confused
Sure, have lots of ideas about the slavery connection. First, and most probable, is the fact they have linked the DNa to family who descended from slaves who lived on AF.
Second, is the fact that generations of farmers and share croppers and their children stay put in one area for many centuries sometimes, if they are comfortable there, and not in trouble for murder or something. It is highly probable that a descendant of the original slaves on AF, lived there and committed the crime against Morgan. The perp knew where he was, was very familiar with the land. He even put Morgan on a special number which had significance to her parents, ie 41 (for all we know he might have made a symbol for the 2 in there somehow, and thus the reason for LE being SOOO insistant that the perp had been there befor, Location, Location, Location.
Third, there is most likely a slave cemetery there, if slaves lived there. Folks could have been talking for generations about past wrongs, and there were plenty. All it would take is for one family member with a twisted mind to take up the ventetta. (could happen) Not saying any of this happened, but could have.
Now, if we were not looking for a black person, but instead blond, blueeyed person, then one could imagine a descendant of the German Prisoners of War went on a vendetta, Only 50-60 years ago, and just possible some are still alive and passing their own brand of hate around against the blacks and Jews, etc. (not saying this happened either) It all sounds silly, but why have they not found the murderers of Morgan?
Now that I have said all that, I might as well say that I do not think they took Morgan on an ATV, but on a dune buggy type of thing instead.

Confused
Sure, have lots of ideas about the slavery connection. First, and most probable, is the fact they have linked the DNA to family who descended from slaves who lived on AF.
Second, is the fact that generations of farmers and share croppers and their children stay put in one area for many centuries sometimes, if they are comfortable there, and not in trouble for murder or something. It is highly probable that a descendant of the original slaves on AF, lived there and committed the crime against Morgan. The perp knew where he was, was very familiar with the land. He even put Morgan on a special number which had significance to her parents, ie 41 (for all we know he might have made a symbol for the 2 in there somehow, and thus the reason for LE being SOOO insistant that the perp had been there befor, Location, Location, Location.
Third, there is most likely a slave cemetery there, if slaves lived there. Folks could have been talking for generations about past wrongs, and there were plenty. All it would take is for one family member with a twisted mind to take up the ventetta. (could happen) Not saying any of this happened, but could have.
Now, if we were not looking for a black person, but instead blond, blue eyed person, then one could imagine a descendant of the German Prisoners of War went on a vendetta, Only 50-60 years ago, and just possible some are still alive and passing their own brand of hate around against the blacks and Jewish people, etc. (not saying this happened either) It all sounds silly, but why have they not found the murderers of Morgan?
Now that I have said all that, I might as well say that I do not think they took Morgan on an ATV, but on a dune buggy type of thing instead.

The slavery angle is the latest far fetched pet theory of a haus frau who blogs. There is NO reason to believe that the dna has been tied to anyone except the unknown attacker of a woman in Fairfax in 2005. Even said blogger has not suggested such a silly thing -- and she routinely makes or hints at outlandish claims like that.

What makes you think anything you say is any closer to the truth than what I say, Mr. Boggs?
No doubt you have some important insider information. Until you know the facts, you should just state your opinions, like I do. Stop ridiculing everything everyone else sensible says, or I will think you are trying to ease the mind of the perps who are no doubt running scared right now. Stop coddling them, and get on with your own life.

J.R. "Bob" Dobbs November 3rd, 2011 | 10:10am

I do not know? She seems to say a hunter and referenced tree camera's. Then she takes a quote from J.me and comments as if J.me is in her raciest club. Of that I certainly do not think J.me is raciest, so why she allows it, I don't know, bust she has told me [ yes, her voice] she does not like to make enemies.

J.R. "Bob" Dobbs November 3rd, 2011 | 8:14pm

Thanks, your right

cosmo November 3rd, 2011 | 10:50am

Your a fisher, so here is what I think.
If Morgan had been of color, and it was Metallica the story would still be in the news. The Hook, National News and even JMV.

Nancy Grace and Boink, nada!

Metallica would have put up the 50,000 and yes I do believe Gil and family would have pitched in as their co-workers did for them.

Smoke that cosmic cowboy!

Yes, they would file a suit if the family was of color and the slavery thing, well Virginian's know snake oil salesman !

If it was an Asian ,which is very possible, then both theories are chucked . An ATV with another larger vehicle to transport it ,perhaps a trailer,ramps ,parking for the mother vehicle is a lot for one person to handle. Was it an electric powered ATV to ride silently under the light of the full moon ? Also someone with all that gear would be organized enough to have a shovel .What if the perp got stuck or had a breakdown now that would be problematic with regard to chances of getting cought .That theory just doesn't seem logical due to the inherent risks. Why drive so far using two vehicles and risk detection but not take a bit more time to make a little effort to bury the victim ? This looked like a very low tech act beyond the vehicle that was used to take her into the country. A stranger driving along Route 29 and up RedHill would readily be able to discern where the most isolated locations were. Wouldn't take hundreds of years of generational habitation to quickly see the obvious .How he/she/they deposited MH in the found location can have numerous probable possibilities .It is a shame that speculating on how it happened or other aspects of the case is parlayed into a vile damaging smear campaign by unsavory elements .

Oh, I see it is a transformer. The ATV turns into a train then a dune-buggie thing then to a hunters truck pulling a trailer and then what?

So the hunter theory, well seems the are abandoning all of the issues with me, like law suites and now saying law suites are just dandy and and it was a hunter, just not my hunter. There hunter, started at the entrance and gate to JPJA, attacked Morgan, apparently stopped at a slave cemetery, then set Morgan free to run in hay fields where the same hunter [ riffle must have been in his magic carpet] [no wait that is Asian] shoots her. Then avoids LE from VSP and Fairfax.

This hunter knew where the tree camera's were, THE TREES CAMERAS!

P.S. I forgot to mention i was referring the grand smearing by Boink .

Frank, agreed. Make the first right after turning off on Rt.29, and you are practically at the remains site. It hardly requires the help of a Sacagawea to find.

Michael, yes! The curtsey duo probably strapped her to the front of their gator, tied antlers to her head, and drove her the 7 miles to AF undetected. No wonder the good farmer first mistook her for a deer that fateful day in January. Heck, that's probably the significance of the deer in the teacher's painting. Everything's code, you know, everything's a clue.

Totally correct and it is even the logical first place to pull off. The gravel pit to the left, the tracks are an obstacle if one were just going with no idea or purpose.

Of you are the pond, and there was no locked gate. Other than 3 strands of barbed wire it is a natural down hill progression, easy par 3.

"methinks the lady doth protest too much" Keep talking cabbage, you've got the head.

"methinks the lady doth protest too much" Keep talking, that is the way we get to know you.

News Flash -- Somehow the cat lady has been tipped off to the reality that two vehicles ,highway and ATV plus associated equipment, would require more than one person to handle all the logistics . Suddenly to fit the ATV idea she has switched from the lone wolf Fairfax blitz type attacker to a team . Now in the latest scenario there is the noisy ATV going a couple kilometers attracting attention to the team with a body . Pretty hard to hide what is going on to anyone who might happen to notice all the noise and commotion during the moonlight night . Two or more individuals prepared and skilled enough to organise and carry this out would have the instictive inclination to take a little more time to conceal the victim .

Frank, don't be silly, you're missing the point that this is a revenge killing for slavery or...I forget what the slavery angle is exactly, or never understood it because it makes no earthly sense. But I'm sure it's why they did not conceal her, but still hid her. The rich guy on the gator concealed her, but the slave guy said let's not bury her -- I'm trying to send a message to X about Y. Hmm. Well, it's hard to work out just yet.

Still, in the end, I'm sure that ALL of the theories that she's coughed up like hairballs will fit neatly together. I'm sure it will work out to be that when the fairfax dude blitzed her in the parking lot (with or without his taser -- the thinking seems to come and go), the grounds crew in their gator came by and snapped her up. See my post above about disguising her as a deer. Makes total sense, really, and wouldn't draw a BIT of attention.

MIKE SUTTON: "This hunter knew where the tree camera's were, THE TREES CAMERAS!"

only one "source" has ever mentioned the "tree cameras". IMO, there were none.

JR, you are pathetic. You are worse than the murderers of Morgan. Reason being, they were psychotic, at least their leader was/is. You, on the other hand, know better, and use any and all means to attempt to hurt the friends and parents of Morgan. You hope to somehow taint her memory by belittling her. Well, it is not working for you. All you are doing is showing the world what an extremely ill mannered, low class individual you are.
A woman like Morgan would not give you a second look. That is your problem. You hate beauty, because you are ugly, inside and out.

"Elucidation: the act of making lucid or clear; throwing light upon, explaining, or providing clarification"

@AIC Bond - You said "First, and most probable, is the fact they have linked the DNa to family who descended from slaves who lived on AF"

Let us be clear: there is no "probable" here. The DNA has not been linked to any individual save the suspect in the 2005 Fairfix sexual assault--a suspect who is as-yet unidentified. There has been established no--repeat, no--link to anyone, anywhere, descended from slaves. Given that LE does not know the identity of the Fairfax suspect (and unless you do) neither they nor anyone else can assert from whom he was descended, slave or otherwise.

WRT the theory floated months ago about a hunter transporting the body by boat up the Hardware River, or ditching the body on the banks of said river, which then floated up to the remains site due to rainfall:

For those who may be unfamiliar with the AF area, e.g., countless readers outside of Albemarle County and across the country, the Hardware "River" is little more than a stream--and barely that. Neither a boat nor a kayak nor a canoe nor a raft could travel this "river". Likewise, there exist no discernable "banks". The fact is, a person could easily stand with one foot on one side of this "river" and one foot on the other side--that is just how wide and broad is this "river".

Those who are familiar with this area can quickly and easily de-bunk the above theory--among countless other such meritless theories.

WRT the theory about a connection between slaves, descendants of slaves, retribution for past injustices, and Morgan's murderer--please. No thinking, rational individual with any semblance of sense would ascribe to that theory, as it goes beyond the pale to move into a realm of pure, unmitigated fantasy-bordering-on-nonsense.

So, this article and the often mentioned blogger. The question maybe how does one relate to the other?

Well, the Estate of Morgan Dana Harrington would be well served to distance the memory of Morgan Dana Harrington form that blogger for these legal reasons:

That blogger has printed personal information about the founders and workers of a Security company that now is involved in a civil suite. The blogger repeatedly implies that she is on speaking terms with Gil and asserts that Gil is taking her advise.

If the Estate of Morgan Dana Harrington were to ask for all internal documentation and anything that could help with learning the truth ordinarily I am sure the party being sued would cooperate as that they too want the truth and if an employee or two did perform to less tan standards there certainly was on intent to cause any harm.

BUT, why should the party being sued do anything as long as they are being false accused by that blogger as to heritage, background checks, implied financial legalities, permits and even posting picture asking for the public to see if their people resemble the sketch.

Now please, the blogger does relate to the article and I believe will be presented in court, upheld in appeals and it is about time for Gil, that is Gil, Gil or her attorney to address this appearance of conspiring to profit from something so beneath what Morgan Dana Harrington deserves.

Gil, do this! Distance your self from the filth and prejudice and see what responses and the fruit of information that will blossom once those wih information understand that ain't what Gil Harrington is about. Gil is a mother who wants the truth and will try to listen to anyone, Gil is not accusing people, naming people, printing persona information and Gil is not prejudice!

Gil is human and Gil hurts!
Gil is not after money and revenge!

Gil wants the truth!

Elucidation November 4th, 2011 | 5:07pm

"..... For those who may be unfamiliar with the AF area, e.g., countless readers outside of Albemarle County and across the country, the Hardware "River" is little more than a stream--and barely that. Neither a boat nor a kayak nor a canoe nor a raft could travel this "river". Likewise, there exist no discernable "banks". The fact is, a person could easily stand with one foot on one side of this "river" and one foot on the other side--that is just how wide and broad is this "river". ..."

So true, nothing like the real thing. Nothing to fit to scale, no virtual images can see what the human eye can see.

It is like going to see "Private Ryan": then claiming you were in that war. Sorry, as you know those people like that - need other people like that to continue on their self indulgent need to justify their so called existence.

Gil has been there, let her judge that bloggers post.

Next it will be a motorcycle, with a canoe, that has snow ski's and turns into a tank. When all you need is any pair of shoes and a brain.

Poor Gil. She's reached the bottom of the barrel.

Michael, the question is, will the blogger insert herself and her wacky theories into the legal proceedings, as she infamously did (under her own name) in the Casey Anthony matter, trying to get Baez in trouble? I'm sure her 'legal team' (aka, the couch potato who watches the most reruns of Boston Legal, The Firm, and LA Law) will help her gin up some laughable attempt at an amicus curiae. One can only hope. (Poor Gil.)

J.R.:

She is a fighter getting her footing. There are many, maybe no so much to express the things that we have been through.

She needs to come to terms in her mind and she will. Bank on it!

J.R. : The blogger dug her grave this month! Put a fork in it, she's done!

Baez: Jury selection and all that a good Attorney needs. To understand that in the United States of America everyone has the right to best the legal defense possible.

He provided it, the State Florida smirked and the jury found the "TRUTH".
12 Floridians, oh what 12 Virginians can do as seen this past week and covered by The Hook so well. 12 people instructed by a judge, I think the Virginians are great examples of the fair trial system, and could anyone win a appeal based on their thoughtful process, I don't think so.

I know this, the blogger was wrong!

University of Virginia is without a question the finest Law School not privately owned, and maybe the best without that distinction. We grew up with John, there is good reason he chooses to live in your area.

I read "The Last Juror" and though set in Mississippi just south of Tennessee I detect a little influence of "The Hook" in that book.

Virginia does not need me for legal advise that is for sure, but they sure as heck do need to give that blogger a taste of "what goes around comes around"! In my outsider's opinion.

I have faith in Gil, Virginia and VSP.

M.S., the blogger is often wrong. Where's Casey's partial print she insists was on the duct tape? She even promised to reveal this after the verdict, then reneged when called on it. She is the queen of the stall. Deceptive. And clumsy, as with jumping the gun on releasing the sketch, to the detriment of the investigation. So we'll watch with great interest the ways in which she will interfere with the course of the civil suit. Surely she'll derail it. Poor Gil.

AICBond November 4th, 2011 | 4:45pm

"JR, you are pathetic. You are worse than the murderers of Morgan."

Really Bond?

In another comment you said something about England. Do you not know history? Virginia does not answer to a King or Queen. We won that war twice, Remember Washington and what state he was from. Do you remember another President that thrashed the so called greatest ARMY and NAVY to pieces and killed their great warrior in New Orleans.

So, these readers IQ's are higher than your annual income.

Do you compute? Nada, not capable are you you?

So JR is worse than a murderer, what does that make you?

J.R.:

The blogger is FREAKING OUT! Bout now.

And you, labeled as a worse than murderer, Wow. When do you get an article dedicated to you with sketches?

T., Jab, FS, and all of us are probably being Q'ed up.

Will Canada have you extradited? Oh, my!

Maybe Jersey, slash PA will have a civil case filed in Shanon's name.

Baez, may want to represent you and counter sue!

J.R.:

Is Baez Asian?

Asian that reminds of Bond's partial rundown of suspects . He has only covered Europe and Africa but nothing from North America or Asia . The cat lady and her Boinkettes are very thorough but their rep here Bond is slacking off . Dobbs hates slackers . The Boinkettes always suspect everyone and go forward making the case against them all. Waiting for Bond to give us what the quilty team was up to if they were Asian .What is the message ? Let's see now what have we here ?creek bed ,white woman, likely historic grievance about white rice,great great grandfather ripped off on a hand pulled wagon deal (north american styled rickshaw) ....waiting for Bond to add the elements and connect the dots ....

But wait!

RMC Events makes a motion for ALL "FindMorgan.com"
records! The Judge Grants RMC all access to Danny Boy's PM's with Blink!

Everything, I mean everything.

Want a peek, Gil?

The term complicit mean anything? Your love opened the door, to quote a song.

Complicity in criminal law refers to when someone is legally accountable, or liable for a criminal offense, based upon the behavior of another. Criminal complicity may arise in the following situations:

"With the intent to promote or assist the commission of the offense:

1. a person procures, induces or causes such other person to commit the offense; or

2. a person aids or abets such other person in committing the offense; or

3. having a legal duty to prevent the commission of the offense, a person fails to make an effort he is legally required to make."

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/complicity/ for the big feller below.

Distance yourself Gil, please!

a person fails to make an effort he is legally required to make.

But, I am just a simple boy from Southwest Tennessee who believes:
in a world where chickens can cross the road without having their motives questioned.
Not my quote!

But from my Dad who likes Shakespeare and did a legal work and that I worked for some 40 years:

"Polonius:
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Farewell, my blessing season this in thee!"

My interest are share in the truth!

UVA may not be Vanderbilt but much in common they are.

I cannot give advise, only tell what my simple ole country Father taught me.

Beware of what simple ole Tennessee Lawyers will come up with! They just might have an answer for this statue of limitations quandary.

FS
If the guilty team was Asian, they were busy dealing drugs, sitting on their "boat" , burning down houses, hiding evidence, running to Jersey Shores, murdering innocent young girls,
creating alibis (so they thought) Hiding in bushes, stealing necklaces, forgetting to brush their dogs, hiding things in holes, like the camera and necklace, framing guilty perps from times past, bombing around farmlands on dune buggy, getting stuck in creek up to floor,
burning evidence, but they missed some. Did I say placing shirt on bushes, and leggings to be found on first search? Did I say showing up at first search to listen/learn/ help with search? How about hiding in their compound????
Keep talking.........I am listening.

Mikey, Mikey, Mikey, I have no doubt your IQ is higher than my monthly income, but please get some advice , NOTE ADVICE. Also, unless you be a sculptor, you cannot make a STATUE of limitations. Interesting to see you try though. Your friend, Bond, James Bond.

But see Bond, it can be proven that the one you finally named as me is prown to making simple spelling mistakes. You just proved it , we even have spellchecke on board.

i am just a simple ole boy, I like the feller below so I ties to cuy and past so to not let my simple mind intefer with suh briliant minds as yurs.

I know I should have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express, then my spelling would be so much better, but there are not any near the tracks by the bridge are there?

And that was annual income! Without commas or decimals.

Say hello to s12 and spice from FM. Gil opened the door, you do such good work Bond!

Enjoying your view from the loft above the real home are you?

So Bond riddle me this:

Is what Gil said just a cover for you to bring in the northern troops?

Why do you think she said, " Like it or not, we remain a family of sorts with the police. Families have their differences, but they air those differences behind closed doors. "

Doesn't seem consistent with your take.

Oh darn it,funny how d a r n looks look a curse word in this font. Must be a conspiracy 007.

I was going to answer your question but I see that was for Frank. I am sure he will have to consult with interpreters as he shakes in his boots for fear that he is not a match for such a brain as yours.

Frank when you crack the code for these clues please share with us:
Jersey Shores
young girls
forgetting to brush their dogs
bombing around farmlands
stuck in creek up to floor
hiding in their compound

Frank could you write a book called Bond for Dummies,seems redundant!
Maybe I will order the Canadian CliffNotes from St Lawrence.com

Frank maybe you get license for Mississippi.com and of course
amazon.com

Just crack hiding in their compound for now, then you can see if you can get me a raise.
James

So are you saying that Morgan was doing crack? Really?

I do not believe it and that is horrible for you to suggest it. Did Shanon tell you this?

Are you suggesting some hunter in a security uniform hunted her inside JPJA and then followed her outside and forced a crack pipe in her mouth, then, took a dune buggie thing down the tracks, to a slave graveyard, then changed into camouflage, took her shirt off, had the secret police plant the shirt, get DNa from Canadian operatives that infuiltrated the Fairfax evidence room, then forgot their shovels, and gave the sketch to the blogger so that Gil could sue?

So where does Jersey Shores come in. Was it Chelsy H., Snookie, Shannon?
Please do not tell us that the boss and Jon B were in cahoots to go after Lars because of napster.

Where does it end 007 your knighted agent for the Queen?

It ends with the arrest and conviction of the murderers of Morgan. It ends with justice for Morgan and her family. If I had my way, it would end with the death penalty for the murderers. Nothing less is fair. The truth will be known.
Please take a good look at Gil's face. Look at the suffering. Soon, ones who know what happened that night will come forward with the needed evidence. Have some compassion. Have a heart.

Compassion for those wrongfully accused!
Heart for Morgan's Mom and Morgan's friends
FACTS
the TRUTH

It was not that night!
Morgan was having a good time.

If you had your way, then freedom would not exist and the very things Morgan cherished would be beaten away before she became a woman! Like a girl in Texas who was not seen in her father's eyes as a self sustaining human with rights to live as an adult, to exercise freedom as she saw fit.

If you had your way, well start in Canada.

Oh, yes I have been there plenty of times. Before 911. I am sure it was me the liberal that was a spy to insist on public health care, using multiple languages, maintaining security to protect North America and such radical American dreams.

How does the death penalty work in Canada? Edumacate me please.

I think it is not my IQ but the readers of The Hook that you seem to degrade.
No Bond, I am me these others disagree with me on many many things except it seems one.

Seems there is one constant, seems to be you and the blogger.

Here is a proposition, these lie detector test you and J.me preach about. How about this, we all 3 take test. Lets see who post under what names. But wait, don't they start like this?

Is this your real name? yes or no
Is this your birthday? yes or no
Is this your residence/

and on and on and on

I am ready, are you?

See I already have the answers to the questions that will be proposed to you and J.me. You agreed to the terms and bloggers had it as publicly seen information.

It is not a conspiracy. It was the blogger and FindMorgan.com.
Try me!

I am hoping that RMC exposes all of it!

Gil will not suffer, she may see things different. We are ready and have been, it is no secret. Just it I prefer to let Gil be the one.

The Hook is not involved and VSP and the FBI are not.

So, I know what I know. Just giving you the rope to hang yourself! There are other places too! You really should read those tiny little things before you post.

Try me, come on! Your safe here!

I've been thinking how the perp might currently be an unemployed 39 year old, tall (6ft) black (dark intermediate) male of medium build living in the Washington, DC area. That up until late 2004 he was an enlisted member of the Army's 5th Special Forces out of Fort Campbell, Kentucky. That before he was discharged ("kicked out") of the Army under "less than honorable" conditions, he was considered very proficient at his duties and had almost finished his second tour of duty in Afghanistan where he became hopelessly addicted to heroin. That he currently receives compensation from, and is currently being seen by Veterans Administration (VA) doctors for a variety of ailments associated with the time he spent in the Army. That they have him down as suffering from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder (PTSD) and consider him to be a very unstable individual. That there may be other unsolved crimes he has committed while serving in Afghanistan involving the stalking, torture and rape of other young women. That he must have selected his Fairfax victim by observing her while she shopped in the Giant food store that evening. That employee's from that store might still be able to offer up new information regarding her rapist provided the right personnel are assigned to help them recall it.

Two things stand out in the picture attached to this story . Firstly the mother of MH looks like Lorrie Morgan and secondly the sign describing the rules of admission,ejection,and re-entry are crystal clear . The rules couldn't be more prominately posted or more clear . At the end of this trial expect the judge to be singing the tune that Lorrie Morgan has on U-Tube . It is a nice tune and sums up this law suit it is called What Part of No-Rentry Don't You Understand

If it's he's loner, and no one knows what happened that night, it's going to be tough to solve.

He is a sociopath and ,therefore, guaranteed loner unable to be in a team to do anything .

Right on, Billfar!

Bilfar, according to accounts, he was already waiting at a bus stop by time she was walking back from Giant, so he probably wasn't also observing her in the Giant. It's more likely that she was not pre-selected, but was a crime of opportunity, as was Morgan. The Fairfax woman was walking alone at night on a fairly lonely road with her hands full. Easy victim. Morgan was hitch hiking on a lonely road, alone and inebriated. Easier victim for her willingness to get into the car, and for being somewhat disoriented from the sound of things.

Also doesn't sound like the first attack was carried out with the military precision we might expect from a recent vet. It was sloppy.

Frank, not sure we should conclude that he can't ever be part of a team. He might be of the stripe that actually plays sports with others, hangs out in the bar with others, but on reflection his acquaintances might realize that they really don't know anything at all about him. A different kind of loner.

Also, employees recalling details 6 years later? I'm sure that immediately or quite soon following the rape in 2005, the Fairfax police diligently canvassed the neighborhood including the Giant, bearing what was at the time a current sketch of the perp. Must not have helped.

To not be a loner this would require two similiar birds . Just can't see the probabilities of two sociopaths getting together and doing much of anything . You think it was just one person on their own also don't you ? Just a sociopath on his own trajectory,incapable of planning,just self centered irrational spur of the moment illogical antisocial behaviour in the extreme .He is like a submarine at the bottom of the social order . He stays silent ,runs deep and keeps moving .

Billfar, this case makes me sick. I have always thought this man could be the perp in Morgan's case.
"Joseph Anthony Broadway, 46, of Stafford County was previously convicted in Stafford Circuit Court of aggravated malicious wounding, abduction and attempted rape.

Judge J. Martin Bass sentenced him to a total of 40 years with all but the 91/2 suspended. Broadway had no prior criminal record.

The sentence was within the recommended state sentencing guidelines, but did not go over well with the victim.

"That's it? That's all he gets for ruining my life?" she blurted out before supporters guided her out of the courtroom.

According to the evidence presented previously by prosecutor Caleb Frigerio, the woman was walking in the shopping center near Foreston Woods Drive on July 6 when Broadway drove up and asked if she needed a ride.

The woman declined, but a few minutes later she was choked from behind and forced into a vehicle.

She was taken to Broadway's home on Kennesaw Drive in Stone River subdivision, where she was dragged into the house, beaten with a nightstick and had her clothes taken off.

The woman broke away at some point and managed to call 911. She had just made the call when Broadway, who is married, entered the room with a knife.

She was completely naked when she ran outside directly into 1st Sgt. Frank Martello, who was responding to the 911 call.

The victim was bleeding profusely and ended up with 22 staples and 20 stitches in her head. She also suffered a broken arm and nerve damage.

Defense attorney Jason Pelt asked Bass to give Broadway five years to serve.

He said Broadway had a distinguished Navy career and had a history of service in his church and his community.

He said Broadway's actions that day were horrible, "but don't let that one day define what this man is. This is a guy you want to be like," Pelt said.

Frigerio said Broadway has proven to be a danger to society and deserved a long prison term. He said the victim is alive only by "grace and the sheer force of will."

"We don't know what caused Mr. Broadway to commit these horrible acts," Frigerio said. "But whatever it is, it's still in him."

Before Bass pronounced sentence, Broadway read a statement in which he apologized and claimed his actions that day "are not my character at all. It is my hope and prayer that I am reunited with my family as soon as possible."

Keith Epps: 540/374-5404
Email: kepps@freelancestar.com

Mikey
Oh dear, so you say you and your alter egos and friends do not like me? "Thus a GENIUS I am proved!"

Frank, yes, I do think it's a loner. That's why it remains so hard to solve. I don't see any need to insert additional perps into the story. DNA-guy attacked the Fairfax woman on his own. Rapists tend to rape alone. And they're a dime a dozen. People seem to need Morgan's attack to be different, unique, complex, diabolical, elaborately plotted, with deep layers of meaning and intrigue. They want it to be special. Far more probable that it was a random attack because she was vulnerable and in the wrong place at the wrong time.

AIC, it can't be Broadway because his dna is in the system, and there was no match to either Fairfax or Morgan.

JR
It could still be Broadway. He could have murdered Morgan, without leaving his DNA around (he would know how to do this, being a Navy Seal) He then could have used his
contacts in Pentagon to get the DNA from Sketch, and put it on the shirt (not probable, but possible) He also could have planned the abduction with sketch, sketch being the only sloppy one. Could be if this be the case that Sketch is no longer alive, because Broadway would kill him to shut him up.
So, ask Broadway who Sketch is.

It’s beyond belief that a big name band like Metallica comes to town without anyone thinking to address all the extra drug and alcohol abuse that was sure to take place in and around the arena that evening.

That the Harrington’s are perfectly within their rights to question why no one involved (the arena, college security, local police and even the Mayor) thought to convene a meeting on how best to deal with the problem.

That they are also perfectly within their rights to question why more than twenty something security cameras were not working that night and why wasn’t a supervisor called to deal with Morgan’s belligerent (but obviously sincere) behaviour?

That Morgan should never have been allowed to walk away in the condition she was in.

You can be sure there will be top level contingency planning from here on out. That the security camera system is already second to none and that “one-size-fits-all” no re-entry policy has been (or soon will be) replaced with something a little more humane.

Bilfar November 6th, 2011 | 12:19am

Very well stated, every word.

No re-entry is a standard policy these days. It may even have come about because of some incident where someone else's child was harmed because someone was allowed to leave and re-enter, and those well meaning parents probably sued and now we have a policy that became one of Morgan's many misfortunes that night.

Here are a couple of other policies that allow exceptions for re-entry that seem very reasonable. Perhaps JPJA could adopt something like them. BUT...had either been in place, it still may NOT have helped Morgan, as her reasons for leaving might not have qualified her for re-entry.

[Nationwide Arena]
Exit and No Re-Entry Policy
Exiting and re-entering the building with the same ticket is not permitted. Exceptions are only made in the case of medical situations and emergencies. Guests with medical emergencies or other emergencies who want to leave and then return to the building should be directed to the Guest Services Station on the main concourse where the attendant will issue a special pass for re-entry.

Re-Entry: HP Pavilion at San Jose has a general “no re-entry” policy during all events. Should a guest of the arena have an emergency or a legitimate purpose to exit and re-enter the building, the guest may obtain proper authorization and have their ticket scanned out. As a rule, only one guest per group is allowed to exit and re-enter.

The key aspect on any re-entry is that a person has no still be inside to get authorized . When they are approved for a valid reason tore-enter by the designated person then they can exit with the assurance they can re-enter .In this case the sinage on the policy is very explicid .A person with a cell phone like MH has the opportunity to call 911 .Her friends after talking to her don't appear to have been given indication of medical distress or they could have called 911 .The ticket takers were talking with her . Some credit should be extended to them for having the ability to descern if medical aid or police intervention should be sought . From the stories so far ,she seemed strong and agressively debating with front entrance personell that she should be let back in disregarding the posted policy . She seemed more of a pissed off patron than one needing medical assistance.

Frank, I assess the situation as you do based on what we know. Besides, do we want arenas to set up Morgan Harrington detention areas for questionable patrons? Morgan's night from hell, while horribly tragic, was a bit of a fluke. Not sure it's reasonable to assume that most guests who are refused re-entry will be murdered.

Bilfar --- There is a full slate of events on the University grounds ongoing . Standard procedures are in effect . The mayor is not needed to call a special council . The policing and security seemed adequate ,no unruly crowds patrons came and went unhindered . There were lots of video footage but no one can pick MH out in any video anywhere according to Lt Rader . The video cams can not angle themselves to see everyone and everything .A young patron such as MH would be very angry at the policy of no-rentry and refusal to let her back in . Having realised they are not going to be re-admitted then what is security going to do . You say they shouldn't be allowed to walk away . However,the walking away seems to be the logical and desired action by both parties . What authority does security really have over a person with an invalidated ticket who chooses to leave the area after they have left the building . MH is reported to be texting friends for a ride ,there is also family she could have called,taxi's would also have been an option . She had her car there and could have asked her friend to bring the keys to the front door . She could have driven to a restaurant to get a warm cuppa and came back to pick the friends up after the concert .

Yup -- at the time she left, she had a purse and a cell phone and options. I imagine it would have been illegal to detain her after left the arena for sure. And she doesn't seem to have been interested in re-entry at the time she left, having not negotiated it (from what we know) upon her departure. So...what could have been done to protect the girl from herself?

JR --- Would MH be slotted into a detention center ? On what grounds ? She was a free citizen .She was strong and mobile lobbying the front end to give her a special exception to the posted policy .She was forceful but not unreasonable or disruptive to the point that police would be called . She realized she was out of the building on her own decision and left the area as a free and unhindered person .We should have reasons here on opinions as to why the suit can win or not . The right to file a suit goes without question . Chances of success are more to the point . There are stories where this $3.5 million dollars has already been encumbered . That seems premature in that this case appears to be a slam dunk for the defense.

From accounts, it sounds like she understood the policy when she was warned about it prior to exiting. Here's a very clear policy statement from Webster arena (where ever that is):

Dress Code/Re-entry: Shirts and shoes must be worn at all times. Patrons are not permitted to re-enter the building during an event once they have left. Simply put… No re-entry.

Protecting people from themselves is challenging. RMC can argue that
even her parents couldn't do it. For instance, if it's true that her
parents were aware that Morgan's group had a designated driver that
night, as has been reported, it meant that the others would be drinking.
But were they of age? Morgan was not. So why wasn't she among the
designated drivers? Seems to suggest a complicity or acceptance of that
behavior -- unwittingly contributing to her tragic end.

BUT, just as her parents don't want to throw the friends (who must have
helped her obtain liquor and/or drugs, and who failed to protect or
assist her) under the bus because they loved her, we're probably not
supposed to throw Morgan's parents under the bus for the same reason. So
let's throw RMC under the bus.

You don't have to check out the Webster policy . Just click the picture in this article to make it readable . Some of the sign on the left is not in the picture . Too bad for clarity sake but a person can jet most of it for JPJA.

Now, can the suit win or not is an excellent question. Seems safe to say that even if Gil prevails, the award will be wiped out due to Morgan's contributory negligence. But that's jumping ahead -- the question is, could Gil prevail?

I suppose if Gil's lawyer argues that if even in one instance a person was allowed re-entry, and Morgan was not, that she was being treated unfairly even though she was being treated according to policy. So there could be some gray area as to why one person could come back, but another couldn't. Of course RMC might argue that it's up to the discretion of the staff member, so maybe it's ok that she was treated differently than some other person had been. Obviously by denying her entry, they didn't intend for her to hitch a ride with a psycho killer, and they really couldn't have seen it coming, so I don't see how they can be faulted for what happened to her after she left the venue.

What would happen if RMC, by way of one or more of their SG were the abductors of Morgan? Could they be faulted then? Could they be faulted for hiring/continuing to allow a known sex offender to work in a position of authority? Could they be liable then?
Seems cut and dried to me. I loudly yell!!!! Something is not right about RMC, if only
for hiring a known sex offender. Not good, RMC, needs to avoid all appearance of evil (even if KSO did not abduct Morgan, we should reasonably expect security to be above
hiring criminals. All parents should keep their children out of any event where RMC is scheduled to PROTECT them until they are thoroughly investigated. I know my children would not be attending. If you can't even trust security to SAVE you instead of murder you, then stay away!
It is so obvious to all who have been following this case, that the tapes have been tampered with/or taped over/or LOST!....It is just not OK to not show even one pic on tape of Morgan trying to get back in. Come on!!!!! she was supposedly kicking up a storm outside.
Now, either she was being obnoxious, or she wasn't. If she was, security should have/would have called LE!! They were all over the place, just for the asking. No excuses,
Morgan was allowed to be abducted with hundreds of people around, and no one saw anything. WHO saw someone grap her and take her to the bushes? Was the dog barking?
You characters in here can create smoke bombs all you like. Any mom, farmer, even perhaps a lawyer can see right through you. Also, I was sincerely hoping that some of you were above blaming the parents of a murdered girl for her death, but see I am sadly mistaken. The Harringtons are known around the world by now, and respected by same.
A handful of you choose to sit around doing nothing constructive, dreaming up ways to try to hurt others. Get over yourself.( selves)

Frank, I brought over Webster's policy because it's so clear. The posted policy gives them the right to refuse [admission, I gather] and re-entry -- it doesn't say that re-entry is not permitted, period. So that's where a lawyer might see wiggle room.

(and of course I meant JPJA's posted policy pictured with Gil)

Seems premature to conclude the tapes were tampered with or lost. The police may have plenty o'footage from the arena. They have kept plenty of details and info close to the vest; no one owes it to us to show us tapes to prove she was there.

And the police have told us that based on their investigation, nothing that happened in the arena is germane to Morgan's disappearance. The action -- and crime -- took place after she left. No one saw her dragged into the bushes because in all likelihood she willingly climbed into the car that stopped to pick her up hitch hiking.

Would it matter if an RMC employee abducted Morgan? Of course. But there would be an arrest and a criminal trial in that case, not a civil suit (though i guess they could follow it with a wrongful death civil suit).

JPJA does state it thusly in their online info section:

Reentry

Exiting and reentering with the same ticket is not permitted.

ft instances can be brought forward where people have been allowed to re-enter without prior permission then each case would be required to be examined . Generally it would be an employee not administering policy correctly . Disciplinary measures against the employee would be applicable . Given what we have heard here it doesn't appear that there was widespread disregard for the policy by those administering it . Bottom line is the policy was in force and if some were able to skirt it then that doesn't give licence to others . If a person is caught speeding they can't use the defense that lots of others were speeding also but were not caught and charged . The "why are you picking on me argument" doesn't win a person the right to be absolved from compliance to laws or posted rules .

Frank, well reasoned. What about her injury? Surely the suit will talk about how she scraped her chin in the arena, and left with it slightly bloodied. I imagine they'll argue that the arena should have offered her medical care. But they couldn't force medical care on her, could they? Haven't we heard she refused offers of help?

All the talk about of alleged tape tampering,some were re-admitted in the past,underage drinking,look alikes to the sketch,slave ancestry,actions or omissions of friends,war veteran issues,etc.etc. are by and large red herrings to the issue in question with the law suit .

Yes. Morgan went to many concerts and was undoubtedly familiar with no re-entry policies. Signs were posted in the venue and she was verbally warned that leaving would mean no re-entry. Unless the guards drove her away from hanging out in the relative safety of the ticket office or in front of the arena -- where she could have at least listened to the concert and then met up with her friends -- I can't see how RMC is liable. Even if they DID say she couldn't loiter out front, they didn't have anything to do with what happened to her when she left.

Could it be the case that ultimately Gil doesn't really file anything beyond this initial filing? That this is just as she said -- to preserve her options since the statute of limitations was about to run out?

How long does she have to file something beyond the initial filing? There must be some kind of clock ticking.

We haven't heard much about that aspect .Was MH asking to get back in to get medical aid or to watch the show ?. If it was to watch the show and she was arguing her case in a strong forceful manner then the injury seems to have been minor . Bleeding was slight and stopped and she was mobile . If she was asking to get back in to get medical aid then some assistance should have been given .Anyone anywhere needing or asking for medical assistance should be accorded such that is just basic humanity. What is the protocal at JPJA? Is medical aid available outside the venue or just inside for valid ticket holders? Is 911 emergency assistance available regardless of location and to those who have or don't have a ticket in good standing to a rock concert ? Trying to tie the unknown question of the requirement for medical aid to the unknown events beyond 9:15 is a major exercise in the hpothetical.

Maybe they'll be made to refund her ticket price.

They're not accountable for her death.

Well I don't know if JPJA had or has the scanners we use out here. But at all of our venues the ticket taker or anyone with a scanner can un-scan a bar-coded ticket so that the person can present again. The report will show all 3 scans with times and code as to what process took place.

I think that by now JPJA is using this, but there is still the human judgement to decide if they "want to" allow re-entry. Just a thought: that maybe a different ticket taker than the one who instructed her may have said, let me see the ticket and what I can do.

On some nights at Staples, Nokia and Fed-EX in Memphis all types of people re allowed re-entry without a pass or stamp. In fact you are encouraged to keep your complete ticket.

I think the system has all of the capabilities but not used with proper human judgement and training then the potential is not reached.

Some great discussions today, F.S. where did you find that video? That is something else.

What video?

JR

Frank Speaker November 5th, 2011 | 7:47am

Two things stand out in the picture attached to this story . Firstly the mother of MH looks like Lorrie Morgan and secondly the sign describing the rules of admission,ejection,and re-entry are crystal clear . The rules couldn't be more prominately posted or more clear . At the end of this trial expect the judge to be singing the tune that Lorrie Morgan has on U-Tube . It is a nice tune and sums up this law suit it is called What Part of No-Rentry Don't You Understand

Ah, thank you, Michael!

they certainly will be held accountable for her death if it is found that someone who worked there: a) was responsible for her death b) turned her away when she was injured c) destroyed evidence d) obstructed investigation

haters - make it easy on yourselves - give up

they certainly will be held accountable for her death if it is found that someone who worked there: a) was responsible for her death b) turned her away when she was injured c) destroyed evidence d) obstructed investigation and many many more ...

haters - make it easy on yourselves - give up

Cosmo--- Your thinking is about as slippery as Boink who is busy down Memphis way seemingly declaring by inference that a husband is responsable for causing his wife to go missing . Not a shread of evidence to support that claim .There is a bad neighbour so to also paint him with the same brush she claims the neighbour is included as part of the husband/wife domicile . Domestic means same home not same neighbourhood .Dishonest or what ?

Not sure the venue or RMC would be responsible if an employee was responsible for her death. Not sure that turning her away if she was injured would make them liable for anything, either, if she were outside and no longer a patron. They're not a hospital.

Things like assisting with LE and care of evidence are after the fact issues .It is hard to determine who is accountable for her death when it is unknown when ,where, how it happened ,or who may have caused it. She wasn't turned away . She left on her own . Refusal of re-admission is not synonymous with being turned away from the Arena property .

i love how all dissenting opinions are stated as a matter of fact "she wasn't turned away" "she left on her own" Gee ... were you there? do you have all of this on your camera? video camera?
how are you so sure, when all agencies don't even know what their acronyms are?
do you know this for fact based on video? oh there was no video? but i thought JPJA was state of the art with multi-million dollar invested security? ... like you know what happened?
we will find out for sure when this continues to move forward. just stop hating ... if you are not apart of the solution then you are just a part of the problem.

if there is nothing to hide, then why so much fear?

not a shred of evidence refutes it, either.

Cosmo------ Refusal of re_admission is different than leaving the Arena property . This is straight forward publicly disclosed information . This little bit of information and other disclosures has you so confused you don't know wether you are coming or going . Better give it up before your confusion gets your head spinning like something in the cosmo .

Frank Speaker ... is it though? really? i don't think it is and i think it is certainly open enough to interpretation ... hence, civil suit. you write really well though and i really admire how you try to make your opponents seem incompetent, but unfortunately it doesn't work as this case is still alive and well. UVA and Ablemarle backwoods pre Civil War ways will be exposed... Justice will be served!

and again ... there is no proof she was refused other than hearsay (no film / video / witnesses) and no proof that she was not abducted from the arena property.

Independent witnesses put her on the bridge, hitch hiking, after the last time she is seen in the parking lot. Tracking dogs confirm that her trail ends there, and not in the parking lot.

really, J.R. ? gee, then i guess we should all call it a day and rest easy knowing that the locals finest have done their best ... you are too funny. it will be good to hear from these independent witnesses again during the civil trial as well as reconfirm all jurisdictional findings and non jurisdictional findings, VSP accounts, UVA accounts, JPJA accounts, dog tracking information, etc. of course she disappeared from the arena, which is really where she was last seen. whoever you are covering for will be exposed J.R. ... get some rest. you are going to need it. RIP Morgan.

It's very hard to solve stranger on stranger crimes. Even the FBI is hard pressed to solve such cases. The dna is a big help, and probably the only solid lead. Finding the guy it belongs to is the tough part.

BUT JR, I distinctly remember someone in LE either saying, or strongly suggesting someone 'left something behind" and that "they wished they had not left it behind"

What JR? You did not know this? I wonder what it was, other than the obvious DNA?
I wondered if it was a winch, or perhaps a wrench. Could it be they dropped the camera?
OR, did the dog run away? If the dog ran away, they could have done reverse scan on his irises and seen everything by now. Did not know this was possible, either? Well, look it up.

This is not a wrongful death suit.

But, must agree with cosmo on few points though, I call it the way I see it.

I do agree with FS's "Things like assisting with LE and care of evidence are after the fact issues "

JR's "Independent witnesses put her on the bridge, hitch hiking, after the last time she is seen in the parking lot." Is spot on.

I think that this is not cut and dry black or white.

Good reading, but the details to judge are what the lawyers present with case law and history.

i

aic, I suspect it was the obvious dna.

Still interested to know more about Virginia civil procedure. Looks like Gil has filed an initial filing as a foot in the door -- just as the clock was running out for the statute of limitations. If that's true, then how much time does she have to file the real suit to which RMC Events must respond?

Anyone? Bueller?

This is the real suit. RMC will have to answer it but not until after they are served. Not sure they have been served with it yet. If the estate doesn't push the case, it can just sit there for a while.

Thanks, red! They have not yet been served, at least according to Virginia Court Case Information online. RMC will have 20 days, I think, to respond once served. Does that sound right?

One more question -- can others still be brought into the suit by Gil and the estate? Or is this their one bite at the apple?

It is either 20 or 30 days after service but you see extensions all the time by agreement of the parties. Generally speaking, I think that the estate will not be able to add claims against new parties to the extent the limitations period has run on those claims. RMC could assert indemnification claims against different parties if it has a basis to do so. The period has run on any negligence claims. You can extend the period under the discovery rule -- if the injury could not have been reasonably discovered until later. I don't see that applying here, but clever lawyers can always try. The estate can amend its claims against the current defendants to add more details/facts.

Thanks.

Thanks Red

So the theory that the civil suit is a gateway to suing UVA or a smaller local security company or random others is sounding kind of unlikely.

Don't forget that MH's mother says they are family with LE and they get together in confidence to further the criminal investigation. The civil suit may serve a purpose for LE also by working in concert .

There are Federal Court options, some may be predicated by a state civil suit, but do not the obvious one.

We saw and heard with our own eyes and ears Gil state that "they" told her Morgan was dressed provocatively.

JVM kind of cut her off, but I do not think it was rude. Either she was so disgusted at the fact Gil presented that those people would discriminate or there was just a time issue with the show.

We suggested this the day after and the blogger's army said I was sue happy. Funny now, bit not a laughing matter. All of the time wasted on PR by Findmorgan,com and the blogger.

But, there is no time limit on discriminating against a victim and denying the effort by a agency due to there interpretation of a cultural choice.

That, if Gil would have come out from the "influences" of the man in-charge would have launched an investigation 18 months ago when it would have been better served.

Gil, the unknowing victim of people with there own agenda. once again shattered.

But it is not to late, discrimination is Federal and Civil rights certainly apply to a deceased woman that was not served by public law enforcement based on her looks, attire and her choices.

That my friends is the suit that needs to be filed, this one could be a step!

Now go back and read the filing and you will see the foundation is carefully there to continue.

State institutions and their contractors as well as LE are often the subject of Department of Justice filings and if not, the surviving executive of the estate can file suit on her own.

Gil knows who presented her with that statement. If she wants war, this is the Nuk Option. Gil should but Morgan first above ALL and proceed, no matter the consequences because either those people that claim to love you do or never really did at all!

I presented this to the FBI in person. My roommate can attest to it, it was our understanding the agent had a law degree he took the notes and I stated that I knew it was not up to me,but to Gil.

The FBI acted responsibly in my view, that is not my point. What is, is that 18 months ago I was not heard by Gil and I know why, exactly why. She was harnessed and that is degrading, a woman with a beautiful mind and passion denied and purposely "influenced" by people that put their reputation and greed first.

I know there was a rape, just not the physical rape of a young woman,but the rape of mothers mind and will by those that claim to protect her.

Disgusting!